Giving Obama another chance

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
You mentioned chamberlain earlier. Didnt he fail?

There are lots of problems drawing comparisons with Chamberlain and the Iranian deal though. It would be more analogous if Obama went to Moscow today and made an agreement that Russia could have Eastern Ukraine provided they agreed not to make any designs on EU countries.

Chamberlain gave Hitler a country. Obama is telling Iran they can sell their own oil on the international market. Pretty big difference.

To add to that, Chamberlain gets the lion's share of blame for Hitler's path to conquest, but I think equal blame should rest on the French for not standing up when Hitler remilitarized the Rhineland, as well as on the French and British for not doing more to help Poland in the opening moves of the war. There's also their failure to back up Italy under Mussolini when Mussolini tried to stop the Anschluss of Austria. Most people forget that Mussolini was actually wary of Hitler and only joined him after it became apparent the Western powers lacked the stomach to face Hitler down.

I don't see much of a comparison between Chamberlain and Obama, I don't see what Obama has done as appeasement, it's more sensible tactical negotiation.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Yeah, he did. That's why I was saying this could be Chamberlain but it could also be Nixon in China, which was a huge success.

There are lots of problems drawing comparisons with Chamberlain and the Iranian deal though. It would be more analogous if Obama went to Moscow today and made an agreement that Russia could have Eastern Ukraine provided they agreed not to make any designs on EU countries.

Chamberlain gave Hitler a country. Obama is telling Iran they can sell their own oil on the international market. Pretty big difference.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
To add to that, Chamberlain gets the lion's share of blame for Hitler's path to conquest, but I think equal blame should rest on the French for not standing up when Hitler remilitarized the Rhineland, as well as on the French and British for not doing more to help Poland in the opening moves of the war. There's also their failure to back up Italy under Mussolini when Mussolini tried to stop the Anschluss of Austria. Most people forget that Mussolini was actually wary of Hitler and only joined him after it became apparent the Western powers lacked the stomach to face Hitler down.

👆

To add to that, Chamberlain gets the lion's share of blame for Hitler's path to conquest, but I think equal blame should rest on the French for not standing up when Hitler remilitarized the Rhineland

Originally posted by psmith81992
They did more than that. They briefly joined Hitler (Vichy). Pathetic french bastards. I don't think England had the group personnel to go relieve Poland.

I feel really bad for the commander of the Italian/Alpine front. Badly outnumbered he still held his own against the Italians only to find that his commanders in Paris were telling him the war was over and France was surrendering.

As far as the snap backs. Russia and China have to agree to them and Russia is not going to do that because it weakens us and gives them a way to hurt us.

http://www.npr.org/programs/all-things-considered/

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
As far as the snap backs. Russia and China have to agree to them and Russia is not going to do that because it weakens us and gives them a way to hurt us.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
http://www.npr.org/programs/all-things-considered/

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Well it's not like Russia doesn't have an interest in keeping the bomb from Iran. It will be hard to convince those two that we need to return to sanctions, and the burden of proof will be high, but if they suspect Iran is cheating it'll be an insult to them as much as it is to us.

I would agree but since they built them their nuclear reactors, makes me think they could care less of them having a nuke. Iran is a huge customer of Russia, nuclear tech, weapons are their major buys. I don't think Russia has as problem with Iran as much as we do with Iran.

I'm trying to understand why you haven't been able to judge President Obama or any other politician based on what they currently do? I mean just because someone has a shitty day one day, does not mean that they won't shine the next. Obama never had to be perfect, because no one else before him, or after him will be perfect. There have actually been outright clowns that have taken office, and they weren't scrutinized even half as much as President Obama has been (God help us all if Trump takes office). But, in the end, I blame this entirely on human nature and the absurd need to trust any and every opinion that comes out of another persons mouth. Many people won't even challenge the validity of some of the more asinine or faulty opinions out there. They just hear something, and go with it. You can't fool everyone with the same bush!t, but everyone can be fooled.

Time, if you are unable to see this, you will be right back to square one in no time at all.

Originally posted by psmith81992
They did more than that. They briefly joined Hitler (Vichy). Pathetic french bastards. I don't think England had the group personnel to go relieve Poland.

Eh, easy there. France wasn't just the Vichy government. We did fight and we did got killed just like everyone else.

honestly i think jfk was the best president

he had movie star good looks, the best looking first lady of all time and his on the side broad was marilyn monroe

obama could be 2nd but he needs a better looking wife or at the very least a high profile affair

Eh, easy there. France wasn't just the Vichy government. We did fight and we did got killed just like everyone else.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I have full respect for the resistance, it's a shame they were an overwhelming minority.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
To add to that, Chamberlain gets the lion's share of blame for Hitler's path to conquest, but I think equal blame should rest on the French for not standing up when Hitler remilitarized the Rhineland, as well as on the French and British for not doing more to help Poland in the opening moves of the war. There's also their failure to back up Italy under Mussolini when Mussolini tried to stop the Anschluss of Austria. Most people forget that Mussolini was actually wary of Hitler and only joined him after it became apparent the Western powers lacked the stomach to face Hitler down.

not sure how accurate that narrative is but i've read it/heard people say it on numerous occasions

cause to me it seems a little easier to condemn them for that than for being so tired of the bloodshed after ww1 so as to be reluctant to engage germany again

also... it seems popular for americans to sort of brag about US contributions to ww2 like the US did europe a huge favor

when arguably we came in late, took the least hits, and benefited immensely from ww2, becoming the top superpower in the world and then eventually the only superpower

not to undermine the american losses or the sacrifices of individual american soldiers of course... just saying i always find that kind of rhetoric a bit ironic

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm trying to understand why you haven't been able to judge President Obama or any other politician based on what they currently do? I mean just because someone has a shitty day one day, does not mean that they won't shine the next. Obama never had to be perfect, because no one else before him, or after him will be perfect. There have actually been outright clowns that have taken office, and they weren't scrutinized even half as much as President Obama has been (God help us all if Trump takes office). But, in the end, I blame this entirely on human nature and the absurd need to trust any and every opinion that comes out of another persons mouth. Many people won't even challenge the validity of some of the more asinine or faulty opinions out there. They just hear something, and go with it. You can't fool everyone with the same bush!t, but everyone can be fooled.

Time, if you are unable to see this, you will be right back to square one in no time at all.

Pretty sure I don't need a lecture, I stated OP thats what I was going to do. I don't know how that was not clear.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
local news stations tend to avoid sensationalist spin as well. (fox subsidiaries included)

i have before, but tbh i really find it either boring or depressing. the good news is usually pretty boring. and the bad news is usually pretty depressing.

maybe it depends on the area, but it seems almost the same whereever i go. i was in florida and west palm had their own local news, and every night it would be here's all the bad shootings and crime that happened... now here's how your kids aren't safe at school... now here's some random fluff piece... now here's a drug that's gonna kill you... now here's another fluff piece... and btw a hurricane is coming, or well we dunno if it's gonna be a hurricane really it could just be a thunderstorm by the time it gets here... and then one final feel good fluff story to cap it off

now i live in a pretty small town in nc, but the local news is charlotte based. and while i was at the laundromat i was watching the local news.. and it was basically the same shit minus the hurricane

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Right now he's in the upper half of presidents (which isn't saying that much considering how many lackluster presidents we've had), but depending on if we ever get an efficient universal health care system he [b]might eventually be known as a top 10 all-time president up there with Lincoln and the two Roosevelts for laying the groundwork.

I mean, even George W Bush wasn't that terrible in hindsight, and the dude's been a model ex-president: invisible. [/B]

Originally posted by red g jacks
honestly i think jfk was the best president

he had movie star good looks, the best looking first lady of all time and his on the side broad was marilyn monroe

obama could be 2nd but he needs a better looking wife or at the very least a high profile affair

JFK was the best. A star that shines brightly amoung the stars.