Yoda and Obi Wan Kenobi vs Sidious

Oh and this:

Originally posted by Stigma
Even if Yoda was ultimately outmatched in that fight, it does not preculde the fact that the two of them are practically equals.

Sidious might very well have just "won" one of his 5/10 split.

This would be consistent with the general portrayal of Yoda and Sidious tbh.

👆

Anyone whose going to argue that there was any more than a "slight" difference in power/combat prowess between Yoda and Sidious in that fight is clearly grasping at straws.

If Sidious was the clear superior and was just fine after their fight he would have chased "the fleeing Yoda escaping with his life" rather than just hanging off a pod laughing, and ordering his troops to find Yoda.

The text says Yoda was outmatched. Clearly it refers to combat and not a political debate. But as Stigma pointed out, it was close enough that the outcome might have been different had the circumstances/environment changed. There's no real disparity between the two imo.

My lack of argument? All you're proving is your lack of attention since you've still failed to grasp the point I'm making.

Oh I grasped your point. It's just that it amounts to nothing more than deflections on your part. You're not difficult to understand, believe me. 👆

Yes Sidious came out the Victor, BECAUSE a stalemate was a victory for him. CONTEXT. Try it sometime.

You're sounding mighty angry there, DP.

Got some kind of enlightening quote for Sidious considering a "stalemate" to be a victory? Because from where I'm sitting, this...

"Yoda tries to stop Palpatine, the new Emperor, from taking control. He loses and barely escapes with his life."

..sounds like a victory to me. Yeno, because when one guy loses it generally means his opponent has won. That the text also mentions twice that Yoda barely escaped with his life but made no point of it to mention Sidious' life as being in danger also indicates that Yoda was on the losing end.

Not that this is anything new; I've provided the quotes and repeated them several times now. Your only argument is that Yoda somehow retains equal standing because Sidious didn't go as far as to stick a lightsaber in him. You'll find that there are more ways than the most obvious to portray a victory in a fight, as difficult as that might be to grasp for you, but with some time and effort I'm sure you'll get there. 👆

Now, I encourage you take up the good book of Sheev wankery like the rest of us before you and the little green goblin get left behind in an exhausted heap of defeat.

And LMAO with Yoda barely escaping with his life. So what you think Sidious's life was never in danger?

Escape didn't enter Sidious's thought (apart from the beginning when he in fact did try to escape), but chasing Yoda wasn't exactly a priority for him either. In fact he ordered his troops to chase Yoda.

I didn't say his life was "never" in danger (come now DP, I know you can at least read). But after the climax of the fight, after Yoda canonically "lost" and began "fleeing", his life was in danger of being taken by Sidious. Sidious' evidently wasn't, as he wasn't the one running away or on the losing end.

That he sent his clones to polish the little goblin off only indicates he's a man who believes in efficiency, and it's not exactly the job of the victor to go around chasing those who are already admitting defeat and running away. There's also the point that he needed to go and recover Anakin, as he was concurrently being turned into a plate of nachos on Mustafar.

Unprovoked Insults? Are you High? This from the guy who came barging in here calling me a Hypocrite and having the nerve to tell me to stop debating here COMPLETELY Unprovoked?

You take questioning your approach to debating fictional characters to be a personal insult? Sounds pretty flimsy to me, DP.

No where does it say in any of those quotes that Sidious was the outright superior combatant to Yoda

The definition of "outmatch":

be superior to (an opponent or rival).

The definition of "lose":

fail to win (a game or contest).

And there's this:

"Though Yoda is a tough combatant" [...] "the battle proves too much for Yoda."

Yoda lost, to a superior opponent, and fled, because the battle was too much for him. You either need to be mentally deficient, overly prideful in your debating of fiction with strangers, or a massive Yoda wanker to try and assert that the fight was anything other than a Sheev victory.

Again where have I said I'm going to IGNORE ALL SOURCEBOOKS.

If that isn't your way of saying "well I mainly care about the film" then it's an absolutely pointless statement to make. If you do acknowledge the sourcebook then your argument has lost it's last leg to stand on if it ever had one.

You like Tempest are clearly having nightmares about me. So much so, that I hardly even show up here nowadays, yet you're still begging me to leave

I'm pretty, like Tempest, the reality here is just that I just find you highly amusing to debate because of how thinly you try to conceal your overwhelming anger and inadequacy. 😂

By all means, come and go as you please. But if you're really going to put out this toddler-tier attempt at an argument and then proceed to call me slow without provocation, then yeah, expect yourself to be humiliated. It's how debating works.

h yes, clearly I'm the one throwing out the Unprovoked insults.

I suggest you actually look up the term Hypocrite before you throw it out at other people.

Well, yeah, you are.

And I'm not, because the insults you sent my way are a valid means for provocation. This really isn't difficult and I expect more from you. 😕

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The text says Yoda was outmatched. Clearly it refers to combat and not a political debate. But as Stigma pointed out, it was close enough that the outcome might have been different had the circumstances/environment changed. There's no real disparity between the two imo.

Whoa, I just saw where DP dropped my name for no reason. Quit stalking me.

Originally posted by Stigma
Que?

Oh I think I said the exact same thing to him like 2 days ago. Either your consciousness picked it up and that's why you said the same thing, or we are on to something here. ✅

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The text says Yoda was outmatched. Clearly it refers to combat and not a political debate. But as Stigma pointed out, it was close enough that the outcome might have been different had the circumstances/environment changed. There's no real disparity between the two imo.

Now, let's all get along and be friends.

Originally posted by Sinious
Oh I think I said the exact same thing to him like 2 days ago. Either your consciousness picked it up and that's why you said the same thing, or we are on to something here. ✅

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Whoa, I just saw where DP dropped my name for no reason. Quit stalking me.

I couldn't help myself.

Originally posted by ILS
You're sounding mighty angry there, DP.

Nah that was you. Remember this "YOU'RE BEING RETARDED AND A HYPOCRITE". LMAO

You're obviously still have Nightmares about me.

Originally posted by ILS
Got some kind of enlightening quote for Sidious considering a "stalemate" to be a victory?

You going to point me out to the part of the fight where Sidious was clearly superior yet? You need to stop obsessing over Quotes, and stick to the actual fight given in the film. Quotes are supposed to compliment the films, and not outright replace them.

The only part where you could argue Yoda lost was when he fell further than Sidious. But that had nothing to do with Sidious's force powers, and had more to do with Yoda's position.

And it's not like Sidious took made any attempt to attack Yoda again at that point.

Originally posted by ILS
Because from where I'm sitting, this...

"Yoda tries to stop Palpatine, the new Emperor, from taking control. He loses and barely escapes with his life."

Again IF he lost the actual combat it was due to a situational context. Sides was in no state or position to actually do anything about that "loss" though.

Originally posted by ILS
..sounds like a victory to me.

Sidious was victorious. As I've said from the beginning. But he had no relevant advantage in direct combat abilities.

Originally posted by ILS
.Yeno, because when one guy loses it generally means his opponent has won. That the text also mentions twice that Yoda barely escaped with his life but made no point of it to mention Sidious' life as being in danger also indicates that Yoda was on the losing end.

Just because the text didn't mention Sidious's life doesn't mean Sidious didn't barely escape with his life either. The final Force showdown clearly portrays both combatants in just as much danger.

Originally posted by ILS
.Not that this is anything new; I've provided the quotes and repeated them several times now.

Yes and circumstantial quotes are all you have. You seem to keep ignoring that thing called Context.

Originally posted by ILS
Your only argument is that Yoda somehow retains equal standing because Sidious didn't go as far as to stick a lightsaber in him.

He didn't even come close to sticking a Lightsaber in him. In fact at the point where Yoda "Lost" neither of them even had a Lightsaber in hand, and Sidious made Zero attempt to pursue his attack on Yoda.

If you try actually watching the fight, instead of learning everything about the fight from Quotes, you would see that.

Originally posted by ILS
You'll find that there are more ways than the most obvious to portray a victory in a fight, as difficult as that might be to grasp for you, but with some time and effort I'm sure you'll get there. 👆

Maybe when you decide to become more Objective, you'll see the fight for what it was - an Near Stalemate, where neither managed to kill the other. And one in which neither combatant was in any state to continue after the final Force contest.

Originally posted by ILS
Now, I encourage you take up the good book of Sheev wankery like the rest of us before you and the little green goblin get left behind in an exhausted heap of defeat.

Ah and the truth comes out! This is all down to "Sheev wankery" in your own words 😆

Like i said try to be more Objective when it comes to Debates, otherwise if you're going to be a self confessed fanboy, then you're debates have Zero validity.

Originally posted by ILS
I didn't say his life was "never" in danger (come now DP, I know you can at least read). But after the climax of the fight, after Yoda canonically "lost" and began "fleeing", his life was in danger of being taken by Sidious. Sidious' evidently wasn't, as he wasn't the one running away or on the losing end.

Excuse me? Show me this part where Sidious was about to kill Yoda, if Yoda didn't escaped.

Originally posted by ILS
That he sent his clones to polish the little goblin off only indicates he's a man who believes in efficiency, and it's not exactly the job of the victor to go around chasing those who are already admitting defeat and running away. There's also the point that he needed to go and recover Anakin, as he was concurrently being turned into a plate of nachos on Mustafar.

What? Usually if you're running from an Opponent, the Opponent needs to at least be pursuing you, otherwise they have no reason to run? We see why he ran in the very next scene, where Sidious Orders his Troops to Hunt Yoda. Clearly Yoda couldn't just hang around there once the fight was over.

The Anakin thing came later, but nice straw man.

Oh and since you take No notice of context at all, I guess since Anakin LOST to Kenobi, he was clearly the Inferior combatant :LMAO

Originally posted by ILS
TYou take questioning your approach to debating fictional characters to be a personal insult? Sounds pretty flimsy to me, DP.

Urm, do you have memory issues? You came in here accusing me of needles insults, when you were the only one doing that. And then you called me a hypocrite 😂

I suggest you learn the meanings of the big words you use. And I suggest you balance your attitude before barging in here shouting about a perfectly reasonable analysis of the Yoda/Sidious fight.

Originally posted by ILS
The definition of "outmatch":

be superior to (an opponent or rival).

In which part of the fight was he clearly outmatched?

Originally posted by ILS
The definition of "lose":

fail to win (a game or contest).

facepalm

I thought you were able to grasp my argument? Clearly not.

Yoda did fail. Failed to Kill the Emperor. Yet I don't remember the Emperor having any success in killing Yoda either.

And there's this:

Originally posted by ILS
"Though Yoda is a tough combatant" [...] "the battle proves too much for Yoda."

facepalm

Again it's not like Sidious was having a field day. He was left hanging off a Senate pod, pretty useless to do anything to stop Yoda escaping.

Originally posted by ILS
Yoda lost, to a superior opponent, and fled, because the battle was too much for him. You either need to be mentally deficient,

Og and the Insults continue.

I think we know whose Angry here LMAO

Sides was not a superior combatant. In fact the words "superior combatant" are not written anywhere. And was not shown in the movie in any way, shape or form.

But clearly you have no concept of using Actual Evidence without spinning it to your own desire. Or any concept of actually addressing your opponent's arguments.

In fact it's got to a point where you're pretty much just Trolling now. Quant would be most proud of you.

Originally posted by ILS
overly prideful in your debating of fiction with strangers, or a massive Yoda wanker to try and assert that the fight was anything other than a Sheev victory.

LMAO

I think we know whose being the massive fanboy/wanker here.

Originally posted by ILS
If that isn't your way of saying "well I mainly care about the film" then it's an absolutely pointless statement to make. If you do acknowledge the sourcebook then your argument has lost it's last leg to stand on if it ever had one.

Again, for those of you having trouble with the basic concept.. A sourcebook compliments the films. It doesn't outright replace it.

And your own interpretation of the sourcebook certainly doesn't override the movie LMAO.

Originally posted by ILS
the reality here is just that I just find you highly amusing to debate because of how thinly you try to conceal your overwhelming anger and inadequacy. 😂

Nah you're desperate to get at me because of the number of times I've called you out on your baseless arguments.

Originally posted by ILS
By all means, come and go as you please. But if you're really going to put out this toddler-tier attempt at an argument and then proceed to call me slow without provocation, then yeah, expect yourself to be humiliated. It's how debating works. Well, yeah, you are.

And I'm not, because the insults you sent my way are a valid means for provocation. This really isn't difficult and I expect more from you. 😕

😆 You're like completely delusional 😆

You came in here accusing me of being Hypocrite, since then you called me retarded and hinted at me being Mentally deficient and all sorts.

And you're still accusing me of attacking you unprovoked?

You've clearly lost the plot.

Me kicking your ass consistently has obviously hurt you worse than I though.

Let's get the moral high ground stuff out of the way first, will address your.. arguments.. in the next post.

Nah that was you. Remember this "YOU'RE BEING RETARDED AND A HYPOCRITE". LMAO

You're obviously still have Nightmares about me.

Ah and the truth comes out! This is all down to "Sheev wankery" in your own words laughing

Like i said try to be more Objective when it comes to Debates, otherwise if you're going to be a self confessed fanboy, then you're debates have Zero validity.

You came in here accusing me of being Hypocrite, since then you called me retarded and hinted at me being Mentally deficient and all sorts.

And you're still accusing me of attacking you unprovoked?

Initially I said "if you were to take this course of action, you'd be a hypocrite". If you really are sore over that, then I'll be sure to give you my sincerest apologies and have a fresh case of anal lotion sent over for your battle wounds as soon as I can. Otherwise? It's just me questioning your approach to debating fiction.

The next (or first depending on how sensitive you are) insult to be thrown was by you, in the following post, which went as follows:

"You're a bit slow at getting the point aren't you."

That, by estimation, is what is called an unprovoked insult; you took it to the next level by bringing in one's mental capacity. I simply responded in kind, if a bit more bluntly. Not that fighting fire with fire is a particularly great thing of me to do but I think it should be made clear to you that not only have you sacrificed whatever moral pedestal you're trying to cling on to, but you're still proving to be the only one that's having difficulty keeping up; and that's the last I'll say of this little conflict.

DP's interpretation:
"YOU'RE BEING RETARDED AND A HYPOCRITE"

Actual quote:
"If your argument is that you're now going to neglect sources like this in favour of looking solely at the movie, then proceed also to stop debating any form of Star Wars media outside of just the movies, otherwise you'd be presenting yourself as a selective hypocrite."

Lulz

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Lulz

facepalm

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Lulz

Relevant Sequence of Events for ILS, NewGuy (and now Selenial) to try and comprehend:

Originally posted by ILS
Ultimate Star Wars confirms that Yoda was "outmatched" against Sidious.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Didn't see that in the film though. Not in terms of the direct combat at least.

Originally posted by ILS

If your argument is that you're now going to neglect sources like this in favour of looking solely at the movie, then proceed also to stop debating any form of Star Wars media outside of just the movies, otherwise you'd be presenting yourself as a selective hypocrite. 😮‍💨

Originally posted by Stigma
I assume it was directed at DP, you uncivilized scum.

Originally posted by ILS
Both, aside from the last sentence which is directed at DP specifically.

Originally posted by Darth Thor

Again he did lose. Because a stalemate was a loss for Yoda.

You're a bit slow at getting the point aren't you.

Yeah sure. Anyone who doesn't agree with you in a SW Debate should either stop debating or is clearly a hypocrite.

So are you going to actually show me the part of the actual combat where Yoda was "Outmatched?" Or are you just going to hide behind semantics your whole life?

Originally posted by ILS

If that sounds like a stalemate to you I suggest having your head examined at the nearest possible opportunity. 👆
I'm enjoying the ad hominem also, mostly because of the added irony that the one dishing out the unprovoked insults himself generally presents himself as being as slow and cumbersome as the avatar his profile revolves around.

Originally posted by ILS
To argue otherwise, that Yoda is either Sidious' equal or superior, is sheer retardation on your part, to put it bluntly. 👆

Originally posted by Darth Thor

Unprovoked Insults? Are you High? This from the guy who came barging in here calling me a Hypocrite and having the nerve to tell me to stop debating here COMPLETELY Unprovoked?

Ah yes, clearly I'm the one throwing out the Unprovoked insults.

I suggest you actually look up the term Hypocrite before you throw it out at other people.

And then we're on the current page.

So much anger. You've got the wrong Avenger, son. Should be Darth Hulk tbh.

Nah they're the angry ones. Angry at how often I put them in their places.

Your transformation from humble, affable poster to bitter, hostile would-be-conqueror is almost complete. excellent

Originally posted by The_Tempest
So much anger. You've got the wrong Avenger, son. Should be Darth Hulk tbh.

But seriously, what is debate about, really? Neither of them is above the other.

Let's stay with the status quo, namely RotS Yoda = RotS Sidious, which made the most sense tbh.

Originally posted by Stigma
Nah. It's just the proper way of reffering to ILS, really. ✅

It does make sense.