Darth Plaguies vs Talzin

Started by Beniboybling3 pages
Beniboybling Worst Member

Originally posted by Selenial
None of the opening part has been denied in any way. You're conveniently drawing the debate to Dathomir again when you know Dathomir doesn't matter. That's the sign of someone who's arguing for the sake of arguing, when you steer the conversation entirely away from the debate in the hopes that no one will notice.
Yet I'd remind you it was you who brought up Sidious' amp in the first place and accused me of making a logical fallacy. I won't apologise for defending my argument, especially when you were the one with initiated the discussion.

On top of that, I also felt that this was a general debate surrounding the events of that engagement, and started as an answer to Wolf's question of where Talzin stands on power. So methinks you're being overly dismissive, this is perfectly relevant.

But if you concede that Talzin was amped to a greater extent in comparison to Palpatine, who may not have been at all, I'll happily move on.

On another note, how are those sources coming along?

I rotated the image for you.

Please. Tell me more how Talzin is leaning back and about to fall over. I'm really interested in your argument 👆 🙄

Mmm, I tried that myself. However you'll notice that by rotating the image in that manner the lightning trajectory is no longer vertical i.e. it's not supposed to go that way. There is also the added issue that in the panel immediately below it she has the same stance:

https://i.imgur.com/XAqxHo4.png

Which you'll find looks quite silly if you try and rotate it. It also makes it easier to see that Talzin is recoiling rather than pressing the attack.

Altogether, I feel you're trying to "skew" the facts in you're favour. Oh too funny.

So what you're saying is Maul = Dooku perfectly in force powers?
To be quite honest, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Because unless that's true, your ridiculous supposition is entirely irrelevant to the debate at hand, as I have said. Numerous times.
You know I seem to remember saying the same thing.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
In which it's irrelevant - the fact that we are not even discussing it as this point does yes, makes it even more irrelevant. That tends to happen when you cherry pick. 👆

You sure you responded to the right post?

Selenial I Choose Violence

Originally posted by Beniboybling
[B]Yet I'd remind you it was you who brought up Sidious' amp in the first place and accused me of making a logical fallacy. I won't apologise for defending my argument, especially when you were the one with initiated the discussion.

On top of that, I also felt that this was a general debate surrounding the events of that engagement, and started as an answer to Wolf's question of where Talzin stands on power. So methinks you're being overly dismissive, this is perfectly relevant.

But if you concede that Talzin was amped to a greater extent in comparison to Palpatine, who may not have been at all, I'll happily move on.

*sigh*

Ok so let's take this down to an even simpler level, because apparently you're still not getting it. Which is kind of impressive.

We are discussing Dathomir Talzin. This thread is regarding a full strength Dathomir Talzin. To try and talk about her being amped on Dathomir could not be more irrelevant. Whether she was or not does not matter. What matters is that Dathomir!Talzin faced off against an amped Sidious and was holding her own.

No one cares if you think Dathomir amped her. Like genuinely no-one because it's an irrelevant bias that seeks to only distract from every other area of the debate that you're currently being destroyed in.

On another note, how are those sources coming along?

Haven't even looked, shame you apparently don't have your own sources 😬

Mmm, I tried that myself. However you'll notice that by rotating the image in that manner the lightning trajectory is no longer vertical i.e. it's not supposed to go that way. There is also the added issue that in the panel immediately below it she has the same stance:

https://i.imgur.com/XAqxHo4.png

Which you'll find looks quite silly if you try and rotate it. It also makes it easier to see that Talzin is recoiling rather than pressing the attack.

How does that stance say she's recoiling? Why does it matter since the lightning fight is still even anyway? Unless you're saying a Talzin who's not giving it her all stalemates Sidious? 💃

No, it's just called standing up straight 😂 Not to mention in the panel where she's facing off against Dooku and Sidious, which is when she begins to get overwhelmed, she's standing forcing forward.

Unless you're trying to tell me that Talzin wasn't straining herself? Or that she was somehow pressing an advantage in this panel? 😕

What's more, is that when she gets weak, she doesn't start moving backward or fall over like you're trying to weirdly suggest. She falls forward onto her knees.

Altogether, I feel you're trying to "skew" the facts in you're favour. Oh too funny.

No way... a Debater's trying to prove a point? Man Beni, I think you're onto something here! 😮‍💨

To be quite honest, I have no idea what you're talking about.
You know I seem to remember saying the same thing.

You sure you responded to the right post?

"to be quite honest" I'm not even remotely surprised. What I'm saying is that when Maul and Dooku enter the engagement, there's far too many opinion based variables to take into account. Nothing conclusive about power levels can be drawn from that engagement.

I was merely responding to your cherry pick comment, explaining why any attempt to actually use that area of the fight is idiotic.

Lord Stark Lord of Winterfell
Originally posted by SunRazer
Actually Mace held her off. All we saw of Talzin dueling Mace was wild slashes (that missed) and saberlocks. Hardly indicative of comparable skill.

Their duel lasted like 45 seconds bro. It was a stalemate.

Selenial I Choose Violence

Also, since when are wide arcs indicative of a bad duelist? Shii-Cho would like a word.

Not to mention, you can't exactly use the art style of TCW to show someone's a bad duelist. Grievous and Ventress have both used equally wide slashes like that in TCW, we don't call them terrible. The outcome was the same either way, she held Windu off.

Not that I think she's a comparable duelist, but she did well.

ILS Restricted

That's Fisto's thing doe.

Beniboybling Worst Member

Originally posted by Selenial
*sigh*

Ok so let's take this down to an even simpler level, because apparently you're still not getting it. Which is kind of impressive.

We are discussing Dathomir Talzin. This thread is regarding a full strength Dathomir Talzin. To try and talk about her being amped on Dathomir could not be more irrelevant. Whether she was or not does not matter. What matters is that Dathomir!Talzin faced off against an amped Sidious and was holding her own.

No one cares if you think Dathomir amped her. Like genuinely no-one because it's an irrelevant bias that seeks to only distract from every other area of the debate that you're currently being destroyed in.

If you're not interested in having the discussion, then you shouldn't have engaged it in, but you did. I raised the point that the Dathomir amp cancels out her weaknesses making this a normal portrayal of her abilities, and you rejoined by saying I was incorrect. Is it relevant to Plagueis vs Talzin? No. But I never raised it as such.

Saying it's irrelevant and "no-one" cares is just a red herring. You appeared to care a moment ago when you responded to my points in the belief you were right, but as soon as I prove otherwise is not relevant? OK. But you know if you just conceded the point we could have moved on already, but instead you decided to make it a mud-slinging contest.

Haven't even looked, shame you apparently don't have your own sources 😬
I'd appreciate it if you did, firstly because it's needed to support your argument, and secondly because I've only come across the one source you raised.
How does that stance say she's recoiling? Why does it matter since the lightning fight is still even anyway? Unless you're saying a Talzin who's not giving it her all stalemates Sidious? 💃

No, it's just called standing up straight 😂 Not to mention in the panel where she's facing off against Dooku and Sidious, which is when she begins to get overwhelmed, she's standing forcing forward.

Unless you're trying to tell me that Talzin wasn't straining herself? Or that she was somehow pressing an advantage in this panel? 😕

What's more, is that when she gets weak, she doesn't start moving backward or fall over like you're trying to weirdly suggest. She falls forward onto her knees.

Recoil means to "shrink back", so her bending away rather than forward in this manner seems like a recoil to me. But granted her stance changes throughout. It's just my perspective really, I'll concede that it isn't of much importance as she's still holding her own.
No way... a Debater's trying to prove a point? Man Beni, I think you're onto something here! 😮‍💨
It's a joke, laugh silly.
"to be quite honest" I'm not even remotely surprised. What I'm saying is that when Maul and Dooku enter the engagement, there's far too many opinion based variables to take into account. Nothing conclusive about power levels can be drawn from that engagement.

I was merely responding to your cherry pick comment, explaining why any attempt to actually use that area of the fight is idiotic.

Yeah but you've got the wrong end of the stick here, and you're just getting more and more tangled up. I don't disagree with that at all, and that was never my point. My point merely was that as soon as Dooku steps in, the lighting engagement is over, what happens next is therefore irrelevant as a determiner or the difference in power between Sidious and Talzin or even Sidious + Dooku, and irrelevant to this debate. Ironically you took this to mean the exact opposite, I apologise for the confusion.
Originally posted by Selenial
Also, since when are wide arcs indicative of a bad duelist? Shii-Cho would like a word.

Not to mention, you can't exactly use the art style of TCW to show someone's a bad duelist. Grievous and Ventress have both used equally wide slashes like that in TCW, we don't call them terrible. The outcome was the same either way, she held Windu off.

Not that I think she's a comparable duelist, but she did well.

Eh Fisto looked a lot more impressive than Talzin, just looked like flailing to me. That said it appears that the force of Talzin's attacks is just too much for Windu, which is why he retreats, so still pretty impressive. She might even have beaten him.