Revan, Revan, and Revan run a gauntlet.

Originally posted by Sinious
Sidious was toying with Galen in the light side ending. In the dark side one, Galen didn't do anything wrong to put himself in that situation. Sidious unleashed his true power on him. I have Revan above Starkiller so I don't think he'd be taken out that easily but it also won't be THAT different. Also I gave the TFU example to compare it to the ending of ROTJ(Cause you mentioned it) as it is a far better demonstration of the disparity between Vader and Sidious.

I hate to do this as it is a rather lazy answer but I am genuinely curious. DO you have proof, or a source that states Sidious was toying with him in the LS ending? Otherwise that would make it your opinion, and while POSSIBLE in that case, I don't believe it LIKELY.

As it is pointed out the ENTIRE reason for Vader training Galen was to make him the Jedi the Rebels would flock to, then he and they would die. So if not stated by an official source, saying that Sidious was toying around when Galen is stopping him from killing the Rebels, that have been his sole objective to eradicate in not only the game, but the coming movies, does not make much sense my friend.

Sidious wasn't a corpse and looked unscathed after the Tutaminis/Force Lightning explosion caused by the now corpse Galen Marek

That's not enough for you?

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
So

Nyriss' remains would like to demonstrate how poorly it'd go for the human body to be hit by Force Lightning far weaker than Vitiate's

You know

The pile of ashes

From a feat of Force Lightning far weaker than Vitiate's

Revan through use of Tutaminis reduced that energy to severe burns, a far less energetic event for the human body in comparison to full on incineration.

This isn't exactly the most complex game of connect the dots dude

I mean, granted, maybe something's being lost here because I'm dead on my feet at almost 3 am, but... shit

Anyways the Galen thing can wait, my point being I think Yoda and Revan are comparable in their skill in Tutaminis. While power behind it is obviously debatable, I hesitate to say Revan could duplicate Yoda's feat without some SERIOUS backing by well-formed arguments. My point now mirroring yours on the opposite side of the coin. You believe Revan will not die instantly, I believe he will not die instantly, but we differ in wheather or not he lasts long enough for the others to defeat Bane and Malgus..... which... at this point I don't think Malgus and Bane losing to the other two is a question, like Revan VS Sidious, of not IF.. but WHEN. Could Revan Reborn last long enough for SoR Revan and Darth Revan to defeat Bane and Malgus?

Originally posted by Sinious
I don't ever remember saying something like the distance between Vitiate and Revan is as big as Revan and Nyriss. The gap is big enough for Vitiate to insta-overwhelm him though.

And instantly overwhelming him doesn't require a large gap as evidenced by how little energy it takes to burn a ****er's skin compared to reducing them to ashes

I get that physics isn't the strong suit of this forum, but this comparison isn't exactly advanced thermodynamics

This is a brief google search and general background knowledge from high school classes I slept through every other one of.

Full on incineration takes hundreds of mejajoules to gigajoules

Burns?

You're talking hundreds/thousands of times weaker.

And that's just assuming baseline incineration

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Sidious wasn't a corpse and looked unscathed after the Tutaminis/Force Lightning explosion caused by the now corpse Galen Marek

That's not enough for you?

Sorry is this directed at me?

Originally posted by Vixas
Sorry is this directed at me?

Yes

Seems pretty clear by who's not dead and not looking worse for the wear how hard Sidious was actually trying

Originally posted by Vixas
I hate to do this as it is a rather lazy answer but I am genuinely curious. DO you have proof, or a source that states Sidious was toying with him in the LS ending? Otherwise that would make it your opinion, and while POSSIBLE in that case, I don't believe it LIKELY.

As it is pointed out the ENTIRE reason for Vader training Galen was to make him the Jedi the Rebels would flock to, then he and they would die. So if not stated by an official source, saying that Sidious was toying around when Galen is stopping him from killing the Rebels, that have been his sole objective to eradicate in not only the game, but the coming movies, does not make much sense my friend.

As stated above, Sidious was never in danger and didn't even get hurt even when Galen went all oneness on him. Also, since he easily takes out Starkiller in DS Ending, the common interpretation of SK defeating Sidious in the LS Ending is that Sidious was toying with him so that he could turn him to his apprentice and replace Vader. The dialogue itself also suggests as much.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Yes

Seems pretty clear by who's not dead and not looking worse for the wear how hard Sidious was actually trying

Actually if you are arguing for Sidious having NOT been trying then... your last statement kinda works against you. What does Sidious NOT trying entail?

It makes it more likely for Galen to match him, and also to obviously HURT him, and for Galen to survive the clash himself. The fact that Sidious comes away in a "meh" attitude, and STILL angry the Rebels escaped mind you, (so if he WAS toying around then it's his own fault, which makes no sense for the mastermind of Order 66) as well as being unscathed, hints that he went all-out to try and crush Galen quickly and prevent the Rebels' escape.

Edit: @Sinious: Ah well yes I know that much. I am talking about their clash of abilities when Galen dies. Not the "fight" itself.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
And instantly overwhelming him doesn't require a large gap as evidenced by how little energy it takes to burn a ****er's skin compared to reducing them to ashes

I get that physics isn't the strong suit of this forum, but this comparison isn't exactly advanced thermodynamics

This is a brief google search and general background knowledge from high school classes I slept through every other one of.

Full on incineration takes hundreds of mejajoules to gigajoules

Burns?

You're talking hundreds/thousands of times weaker.

And that's just assuming baseline incineration

That's actually a pretty weak logic. The difference between ashing a person and just burning their skin is irrelevant since the tutaminis that filters the effect of lightning determines how much of it is gonna harm the body. Revan already deflected a lightning attack that was powerful enough to ash human bodies. Him being able to do the same against Vitiate is irrelevant as we don't know how much more powerful Vitiate's lightning is compared to Nyriss' lightning and knowing that wouldn't really answer any questions related to the discussion at hand.

This has nothing to do with physics, simply common sense and an average ability to do comparison. In SW Universe, instantly over-whelming a character with one attack is an indication of a big disparity. Nothing indicates that Sidious can ash Dooku with his lightning for example, but that doesn't mean he can't stomp him with it. Its quite simple tbh.

He ate an explosion containing several seconds worth of his own Lightning, one of his greatest offensive force powers, and comes out unscathed from an explosion induced from that same ball of energy containing that entire burst of Force Lightning

His lack of injury is indicative of the fact he held back a ****ton seeing as a quick burst of his Lightning at full power alone should be more than enough to injure him.

Sure as **** left Yoda steaming in RotS

Anyways, I am sorry, the Galen thing is derailing the focus of the thread. I think we can all agree Revan lasts a bit against Sidious yes? Not instant death? So I post the next question to be answered again....

Is the time enough for the other two to defeat Malgus and Bane? (As it does not seem to be a doubt in anyone's mind Malgus and Bane will lose to the other two...)

Originally posted by Vixas
Anyways, I am sorry, the Galen thing is derailing the focus of the thread. I think we can all agree Revan lasts a bit against Sidious yes? Not instant death? So I post the next question to be answered again....

No, it wouldn't be an instant death as SoR Revan is more powerful than the novel Revan. It'll still be a short fight though.

Is the time enough for the other two to defeat Malgus and Bane? (As it does not seem to be a doubt in anyone's mind Malgus and Bane will lose to the other two...)

Originally posted by Sinious
That's actually a pretty weak logic.

The cognitive dissonance is kind of painful this sleep deprived, not going to lie dude

The difference between ashing a person and just burning their skin is irrelevant since the tutaminis that filters the effect of lightning determines how much of it is gonna harm the body.

The sheer nothing you said here is kind of beautiful in its own fashion

Tutaminis is the power of Absorb/Negate/Deflect Energy.

The difference between reducing a ****er to ashes and only receiving burns is entirely due to the fact he negated/absorbed some large portion of said energy.

This isn't terribly difficult to follow.

Revan already deflected a lightning attack that was powerful enough to ash human bodies.

Indeed

Him being able to do the same against Vitiate is irrelevant as we don't know how much more powerful Vitiate's the to Nyriss' lightning and knowing that wouldn't really answer any questions related to the discussion at hand.

Kind of baffled how this is hard for you to follow

Revan vs Nyriss = 100% Negation

Revan vs Vitiate? We don't need to know how much more powerful it is.

All you need is the ratio between baseline incineration and burns to establish a low end.

Anything after that is cake that paints Revan's power as a larger fraction of Vitiate's.

This has nothing to do with physics

It has everything to do with physics if you're trying to determine how impressive a given feat is

If you don't have a standardized means to evaluate how great a given feat is, you're just spewing off you're own opinion... making this already frivolous hobby an even larger waste of time

If you don't want objective debate, you're better off just gushing about how strong a given character is in a fan appreciation thread.

Nothing indicates that Sidious can ash Dooku with his lightning for example, but that doesn't mean he can't stomp him with it. Its quite simple tbh.

He could if you guys actually knew how to play some connect the dots

You're a more casual board, I get that, but you're better off telling me you agree to disagree than just feeding me this half assed rebuttal dude.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
The cognitive dissonance is kind of painful this sleep deprived, not going to lie dude

Kinda in the same situation here.

The sheer nothing you said here is kind of beautiful in its own fashion

Tutaminis is the power of Absorb/Negate/Deflect Energy.

The difference between reducing a ****er to ashes and only receiving burns is entirely due to the fact he negated/absorbed some large portion of said energy.

This isn't terribly difficult to follow.

Kind of baffled how this is hard for you to follow

Revan vs Nyriss = 100% Negation

Revan vs Vitiate? We don't need to know how much more powerful it is.

All you need is the ratio between baseline incineration and burns to establish a low end.

Anything after that is cake that paints Revan's power as a larger fraction of Vitiate's.

It has everything to do with physics if you're trying to determine how impressive a given feat is

If you don't have a standardized means to evaluate how great a given feat is, you're just spewing off you're own opinion... making this already frivolous hobby an even larger waste of time

If you don't want objective debate, you're better off just gushing about how strong a given character is in a fan appreciation thread.

Again, completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Revan being taken out completely is what matters here.

He could if you guys actually knew how to play some connect the dots

You're a more casual board, I get that, but you're better off telling me you agree to disagree than just feeding me this half assed rebuttal dude.

Educate me then, why is being able to avoid getting ashed by your enemy means being close to him in power and how could Sidious ash Dooku with lightning?

Originally posted by Sinious
[B]And I never denied that but it has nothing to do with what we are discussing here. Revan has already reflected lightning that is powerful enough to ash people, doing that again has no meaning.

You're kind of strawmanning the point of this discussion dude

We're discussing why Revan is a large fraction of Vitiate's Lightning's power

I'm able to establish a low end ratio by knowing low end human incineration vs just burning him

Nothing more, nothing less.

No one can deny that his tutaminis is great but the fact that Vitiate's lightning was even greater(to an extend where he can one-shot him) only means that he is much more powerful. Now that is not difficult to follow at all. 😬

That's a simplistic view of feats, which is mostly born of only debating Star Wars as far as I can tell

Once you cut your teeth trying to compare between fiction, shit like this needs to be better scrutinized for a more objective analysis.

Like I mentioned earlier, I come from a different school of thought

The fan interpreted mechanics of the verse have to eat a dick if you're going to try comparing different verses objectively.

That ratio is connected to the ratio between Revan and Vitiate's power I understand that and the power difference between Nyriss and Vitiate could be compared via its effect on Revan but it doesn't prove that they(Vitiate and Revan) are close in power.

There's an objective yield required to burn and incinerate

We know Vitiate should have replicated the incineration had his attack stood unopposed with a Force power.

To establish a low end percentage of power Revan possesses of Vitiates lightning, you take baseline incineration, subtract severe burns yield from that, and divide by baseline incineration for how much power Revan had to negate not to be a pile of ashes.

Again, completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Revan being taken out completely is what matters here.

And once more, that style of thinking is too simplistic for what I normally debate.

If you disagree, that's fair

Don't waste my time trying to offer a legitimate rebuttal that can only come out as half assed due to different rule sets though.

Educate me then, why is being able to avoid getting ashed by your enemy means being close to him in power and how could Sidious ash Dooku with lightning?

This is mostly shit born of normally comparing feats between fictions.

Energy takes vast magnitudes of difference to **** up different things

A building gets downed to hundreds of kg to tons of tnt

A city takes thousands to millions times that

Country about a trillion, etc

A few hundred million joules (human incineration) doesn't mean much later on if the feats both characters throw around can be counted in MOAB/FOAB/Nukes/Etc.

I'm vaguely aware that's probably too truncated to convey anything useful to you, but I'm basically about to pass out so...

Night :maybe

Originally posted by Sinious
No, it wouldn't be an instant death as SoR Revan is more powerful than the novel Revan. It'll still be a short fight though.

The only reason people think the Revans win is because there is a major trolling going on against Bane and characters from his era but even if the Revans would win, it would take a lot more time for it to end than the Sidious vs SoR Revan fight as even DarthAnt admits that the Revan trio loses the fight.

Oh, I don't doubt they WILL lose. I'm just gauging where different people are placing Revan's forms as he is a rather polarizing, yet popularly debated, figure. That and even if I don't believe it the most likely outcome, I felt obligated to provide SOME form of debate as the OP.

SOR Revan > DE Sidious
Redeemed Revan > DE Sidious
Darth Revan > DE Sidious

Vitiate is far beyond anything that any incarnation of Sidious has ever displayed, the very fact that Revan is able to fight Vitiate and in some realities beat him demonstrates how far Revan is above Sidious.

To put it clearly Vitiate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DE sidious.

The combined storm this gauntlet with relative ease, they clear it.

TFU Sidious was casually shocking Galen with Force Lightning, Galen's attempt to Tutaminis this lightning resulted in him being tortured with blinding pain and caused him to slowly die and become one with the Force. This wasn't charged lightning nor was Sheev going all out and Galen was still being killed by it despite Tutaminis.

ROTS Sidious by the same token hit Yoda with an uncharged blast of lightning and Yoda could barely handle it whilst Sheev mocked him.

A charged all out burst of Sheev Palpatine grade electricity would kill Revan in due time.

@ Chaos
Damn talk about being arrogant. Lets put number on things. If the required amount of energy to ash bodies is 100 units, then Nyriss' energy is <100 units and thats all we will ever know about her power matemathically. And if the required energy to burn skins is 30 units(just throwing numbers), then Vitiate's power - anything between 30 to 99 units would give us Revan's power but this whole logic would be useful if we knew how much energry Vitiate unleashed on Revan and we dont know that cause Vitiate didnt send the exact same amount needed for ashing people. He sent something that would Overwhelm Revan so in this case, Revan's tutaminis could very well be 500 units or something like 120 units since the only limitation it has is that it has to be more than Nyriss' energy and Nyriss energy has to be at least 100 units which means that Vitate's power could be something like 550(500+anything between 30 and 99) or 170(120 + 30 to 99) and the ratio of power in those two different cases is really different as being 170 to 120 is a much more significant power gap compared to 500 to 550 and we will never know where Vitiate and Revan stand mathematically. We only know that The power gap between them is big enough for Vitiate to take him out with one attack and that my friend had been my argument from yhe behinning. (sorry about thr shitty language skills, its quite late here as well and Im on my phone)

More importantly, this percantage thing isnt really that relevamt in SW universe. vader is %80 of Sidious but that doesnt stop Sidious from stomping him.