I'm not so sure that they even get beaten at stage 2, but then I really don't know all that much about Revan. But generally, a lot of people would argue that Revan's different incarnations are around the general level of the characters in that stage as far as I'm aware. Why are people so sure it's a stomp?
They easily get through every other stage though.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Except for the part where Malak says he's more powerful in KotOR?Anyway, Team goes down at 2.
Eh, Ant mostly justifies that by saying "Oh what does Malak know? he's only been around Revan for duration of their stay in the Jedi Academy, the Mando wars and the Jedi Civil wars, like Malak knows anything pfffffffffffff"
Joking, obviously, I remember asking him about the Malak quote but the answer was something evasive and vague, so yeh.
Originally posted by Sinious but this whole logic would be useful if we knew how much energry Vitiate unleashed on Revan and we dont know that cause Vitiate didnt send the exact same amount needed for ashing people.
He sent it in excess. Not sure what's so difficult to follow about establishing a low end when all you have to work with is bear minimum knowledge.
The omniscient 3rd person narrative more than notes Vitiate's Lightning is "infinitely" (obvious hyperbole, but works to suggest comparing Nyriss and Vitiate's attacks is a laughable endeavor) superior to Nyriss'
His attack had more than sufficient power to reduce Revan to ashes were he not to use a Force power to protect himself
He was only severely burnt instead.
Causing severe burns doesn't take much more than a fraction of the energy it takes to cause incineration.
As I noted previously, given how inexact this hobby is and how forums have different means of discerning shit, you're free to disagree.
My only aim is to see if you understand the point regardless of accord.
He sent something that would Overwhelm Revan so in this case, Revan's tutaminis could very well be 500 units or something like 120 units since the only limitation it has is that it has to be more than Nyriss' energy and Nyriss energy has to be at least 100 units which means that Vitate's power could be something like 550(500+anything between 30 and 99) or 170(120 + 30 to 99) and the ratio of power in those two different cases is really different as being 170 to 120 is a much more significant power gap compared to 500 to 550 and we will never know where Vitiate and Revan stand mathematically.
Not really how it works
The only meaningful gap that can exist between the power of Revan's Tutaminis and Vitiate's Lightning on a scale of energy is the amount of energy it takes to severely burn an unresisting human body
Knowing the exact amount of power either was pulling on holds no relevance to determining this much given actual present data
We only know that The power gap between them is big enough for Vitiate to take him out with one attack and that my friend had been my argument from yhe behinning.
And as I've noted, that's far too simplistic to be an accurate model of the feat in question
Can being overwhelmed instantly mean the gulf in power of Revan's Tutaminis and Vitiate's Lightning is large?
Sure.
Do all the variables acting in the scene point to it with all known facts about the scene?
The difference between burning and incineration tells me no.
(sorry about thr shitty language skills, its quite late here as well and Im on my phone)
Don't worry about it.
Compared to the English of some people I've had to read, yours comes off as Shakespearean.
More importantly, this percantage thing isnt really that relevamt in SW universe. vader is %80 of Sidious but that doesnt stop Sidious from stomping him.
No
His power level is 80% of Sidious'
And unless you're about to argue Farmer with Shotgun can level continents in Dragon Ball for only being 1.5% of Post Raditz Fight Piccolo's power level?
Don't insult me and yourself by even pretending in universe power levels are operating on a linear scale.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Except for the part where Malak says he's more powerful in KotOR?Anyway, Team goes down at 2.
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Eh, Ant mostly justifies that by saying "Oh what does Malak know? he's only been around Revan for duration of their stay in the Jedi Academy, the Mando wars and the Jedi Civil wars, like Malak knows anything pfffffffffffff"Joking, obviously, I remember asking him about the Malak quote but the answer was something evasive and vague, so yeh.
I covered it in my The Power of Darth Revan (http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/the-power-of-darth-revan-overview/103361/) thread:
This little snippet will be short, but since we were just talking about Darth Malak, I would like to clarify something. Many people feel the need to lowball Darth Revan since Darth Malak hypes that he is inferior to his Knights of the Old Republic incarnation. While I will not publicly take sides on my belief on who would win between the two Revan's, using Malak's quote as the basis of your argument is pathetic. And yes, I am referring to this:
"You are stronger than I thought; stronger than you ever were during your reign as the Dark Lord. I did not think that was possible."
―Darth Malak (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic)
People fail to understand that, despite Darth Revan's power (as I highlighted above and will continue to extensively cover below), why Darth Malak saw him as "weak." Before you jump to baseless conclusions, allow me to elaborate why. Darth Revan knew the Star Forge was both a blessing and a curse. While Darth Malak wanted use the Star Forge's power to its fullest extent, Revan knew better. Darth Revan tried to limit his exposure to the Star Forge as much as possible, and only harnessed its power when needed. Why? Corruption of the Star Forge was eventually inevitable - which was made clear by the combined cautions of the Rakata and Ancient Sith Lords. Malak saw this logical decision by Revan as a weakness.
"You were a fool. All you saw was an enormous factory, all you ever imagined was an infinite fleet rolling forth to crush the Republic. You were blind, Revan - blind and stupid! The Star Forge is more than just a space station. In some ways, it is like a living creature. It hungers. And it can feed on the dark side that is within all of us!"
―Darth Malak (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic)
Darth Malak also loathed Revan for his approach during the Jedi Civil War. Despite Revan's intentions to specifically keep infrastructures and worlds intact in preparation for the Sith Emperor's army, Malak preferred absolute destruction and chaos. Darth Revan sparing several key worlds that Darth Malak felt should have been destroyed did not sit nicely. Eventually, Malak's comments sparked a duel between the two that ended when Revan delivered a lightsaber strike to his apprentice that removed Malak's jaw. It is only logical that a man would hate the one who injured him the most. Also, please do not derail the thread by posting your rebuttals or feelings on this match in the comments below.
"The Republic conquest initially goes well, but in time, Malak ses Lord Revan as soft, resulting in a tension that culminates in a lightsaber duel; Malak loses his lower jaw to Revan's blade, necessitating a metallic jaw guard. Returning the favor, Malak fires on Revan's flagship. Unaware that the Jedi have captured the traitor, Malak assumes the crown of ruling Dark Lord, inheriting the empire."
―Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
He sent it in excess. Not sure what's so difficult to follow about establishing a low end when all you have to work with is bear minimum knowledge.The omniscient 3rd person narrative more than notes Vitiate's Lightning is "infinitely" (obvious hyperbole, but works to suggest comparing Nyriss and Vitiate's attacks is a laughable endeavor) superior to Nyriss'
His attack had more than sufficient power to reduce Revan to ashes were he not to use a Force power to protect himself
He was only severely burnt instead.
Causing severe burns doesn't take much more than a fraction of the energy it takes to cause incineration.
As I noted previously, given how inexact this hobby is and how forums have different means of discerning shit, you're free to disagree.
My only aim is to see if you understand the point regardless of accord.
Not really how it works
The only meaningful gap that can exist between the power of Revan's Tutaminis and Vitiate's Lightning on a scale of energy is the amount of energy it takes to severely burn an unresisting human body
Knowing the exact amount of power either was pulling on holds no relevance to determining this much given actual present data
And as I've noted, that's far too simplistic to be an accurate model of the feat in question
Can being overwhelmed instantly mean the gulf in power of Revan's Tutaminis and Vitiate's Lightning is large?
Sure.
Do all the variables acting in the scene point to it with all known facts about the scene?
The difference between burning and incineration tells me no.
Don't worry about it.
Compared to the English of some people I've had to read, yours comes off as Shakespearean.
No
His power level is 80% of Sidious'
And unless you're about to argue Farmer with Shotgun can level continents in Dragon Ball for only being 1.5% of Post Raditz Fight Piccolo's power level?
Don't insult me and yourself by even pretending in universe power levels are operating on a linear scale.
I'll let you know when I start getting DBZ references.
All that contradicts with showings from SW Universe. I understand what you are saying but there are different realities in SW Universe and therefor in SW debating as well. Its not because people are ignorant.
The Sidious/Vader example remains and so is my claim: SW power dynamics cannot be gauged mathematically. If you wanna insist on pursuing that line of though, then like you said lets agree to disagree. 👆
Originally posted by Sinious
I'll let you know when I start getting DBZ references.
I'll summarize it for you
Farmer with Shotgun, a regular human, had a power level of 5.
Piccolo, with a power level of 329, violently detonated the moon.
A power level of 5 would roughly be 1.5% of Piccolo's power
Detonating the moon at baseline is about 29 exatons (290 times the meteor impact that helped kill the dinosaurs, and about 2 trillion times the nukes dropped on Japan)
Taking power levels as linear would mean the average human, Farmer with Shotgun can turn Australia into a crater, which is garbage.
Sorry the reference was obscure to you, figured I'd shoot for the most well known one :hmm
All that contradicts with showings from SW Universe.
So I take it you like to just exclusively think about Star Wars vs?
Fair enough.
Its not because people are ignorant.
Sorry if it comes off as me calling you ignorant
Its half me just goading you or others into debate per my posting style and half me being terrible at interpersonal communication without being able to demonstrate emotes face to face.
Online you're monotone as ****, which kind of ****s me over given I'm an ******* to begin with. I try to be generally non-serious about it, but that's hard to convey on here :hmm
The Sidious/Vader example remains
Not if you read my above example or the few dozen other fictions I can pull from to stomp power level nonsense into the dirt.
then like you said lets agree to disagree. 👆
That's fair :maybe
Originally posted by appletonia
I'm not so sure that they even get beaten at stage 2, but then I really don't know all that much about Revan. But generally, a lot of people would argue that Revan's different incarnations are around the general level of the characters in that stage as far as I'm aware. Why are people so sure it's a stomp?They easily get through every other stage though.
Sidious and Bane far eclipse all Revan's in martial prowess and their Force powers are above his as well. They'd dispatch their opponents after a short fight given their considerable speed. And Malgus would defeat Darth Revan with a similar degree of difficulty. The Revan's are basically thoroughly outclassed in ever area.
Also it makes no sense for Darth Revan to be superior to Kotor Revan. By your own estimation in your own respect thread, Darth Revan only defeated Malak in a "desperate" fight. By Kotor though, Revan defeated a more powerful and amped Malak multiple times in a row despite significant disadvantages.
And your little essay above is completely idiotic. Malak is obviously talking about martial ability. Even in your own dumb interpretation it makes no sense for Malak to consider the brainwashed Jedi version of Revan to be stronger than the Sith version. If Malak saw him as weak for his restraint he'd view him doubly so as a Jedi.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious and Bane far eclipse all Revan's in martial prowess and their Force powers are above his as well. They'd dispatch their opponents after a short fight given their considerable speed. And Malgus would defeat Darth Revan with a similar degree of difficulty. The Revan's are basically thoroughly outclassed in ever area.
Do you no longer rate Revan particularly highly? I find it too difficult to argue for him as I haven't read Revan or gotten up to his content in TOR, and it's been too long since I played the KOTOR games and he was always somewhat of an unknown quantity as it was anyway, so I'll take your word for it either way.
Originally posted by appletonia
Do you no longer rate Revan particularly highly? I find it too difficult to argue for him as I haven't read Revan or gotten up to his content in TOR, and it's been too long since I played the KOTOR games and he was always somewhat of an unknown quantity as it was anyway, so I'll take your word for it either way.
No, I estimate Revan very highly. I simply rate Sidious, Bane and Malgus highly as well. Higher than I do these various incarnations of Revan.
Apologies to everyone I did not mean to make it sound like I took the 80% thing as canon or even extremely seriously, just pointing out that since the general consensus is that SoR Revan is above Vader (I say GENERAL as in majority) by a varying amount, and does indeed have very excellent endurance feats, that he would not die "INSTANTLY". Not that he would not die. Apologies again if my intentions came across as skewed.