"This is similar to my last answer - the Exile is probably more skilled at dueling, but I hate "vs" questions. That's like saying "who would win in a boxing match if the older fighter couldn't use experience and cunning and only relied on physical skill" - it's not a very realistic question because that's not how these things work. There are way too many random factors to give a definitive "X beats Y" answer."
―Drew Karpyshyn (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan Author)
I suspect this quote will be brought forward. Let's have some fun and make a rebuttal.
First off, even despite him giving a shaky answer, he pulls the same card as he always had. He actually has used the same analogy on me before in regards to Darth Revan vs Revan Reborn. Check it out:
"On some days, the younger, pre-rebirth Revan might be stronger, on other days the wiser, more mature older Revan might have the upper hand. It depends on all sorts of circumstances. The example I give is with pro athletes. Is Tiger Woods from 2000 better than Tiger from 2006? One was younger and hit the ball farther, the other was wiser and had more control of his game. If they played a match, who knows who would win? If they played 10 matches, I doubt one version would win them all. So, really, who is stronger? I feel the same way about Revan."
So here we see him saying that, on same days, Darth Revan might be stronger than Revan Reborn despite saying in his novelization that Revan Reborn is indeed "far more powerful" than his Sith incarnation. There's also this:
"Who’s stronger – Darth Bane, Darth Revan or Darth Vader? It’s a tie. Seriously, I can’t answer this. First, it’s not really up to me to make that kind of call. Second, it really depends on the situation. You can probably find rule books for various Star Wars role-playing games that will give you stats allowing you to compare relative strength. But from an artistic and dramatic standpoint, this kind of question has no “right” answer. Each character has strengths and weaknesses, and they grow and change as their stories progress. On any given day, at any given time, under any given circumstance anyone can win or lose. That’s what dramatic conflict is all about."
Here you see Drew make the claim that in a battle between Darth Bane, Darth Revan, and Darth Vader, it would be a tie. They all have chances at victory and it depends on circumstances and mindset. It's impossible to gauge. He did the same thing in regards to Revan vs the Jedi Exile.
Also notice how, in his quote, he stripped Revan (the older fighter) of his "experience and cunning," but seemingly kept it for the younger fighter. I think it's possible that Drew interpreted Selenial's message as "Who wins in a fight between Revan and the Jedi Exile if Revan just gets his lightsaber?" Otherwise, the younger fighter would also have factors that would be knocked out since s/he too would be stripped of the Force. We can also take his quote literally, in which he's also stripping Revan of his battlefield experience and intelligence, two of Revan's greatest traits. Even despite this, he is still only going to "probably" lose to the Jedi Exile? Sounds like a badass feat for Revan.
I would also like to point out that Drew explicitly says he does not want to give a definite answer because he does not think there is one. This, by default, throws his quote into the pit of "all fights depend on circumstances and mindset" that give us statements like Darth Bane = Darth Vader, which we all know isn't true. However, Chris Avellone, head writer of Knights of the Old Republic II and creator of the characters of the Jedi Exile and Darth Revan (basically), has commented on this by saying "Revan could kick the Exile’s ass..."
There is really not debate here to be made. Avellone has already directly stated Revan would rape Surik in sabers. Drew comes and says its possible that she beats him, but that doesn't hold more weight then a definite answer.
Drew has also claimed Malak is more skilled than Revan with a blade, despite Revan most likely only purely using a lightsaber against him on the Star Forge due to the nexus hindering him to extreme levels. His credibility with these sort of things, when he elaborates further on context, is not really that strong.
Even if we do take Drew's quote at face value, we must do the same for Chris, and we get in the middle a "Revan is solidly above Surik as a duelist." In no way does this come out on top for the Exile unless you outright ignore quotes from the man who invented him. I also find it amusing that Selenial denied Avellone's quotes as not credible, yet now wants to sponsor Drew's quotes. Nephthys-tier double-standards, tbh.
"So my opinion is that Revan could kick the Exile’s ass..."
―Chris Avellone (Knights of the Old Republic 2 Head Writer)
👆
Numerous hilarious things with that post. First off knowing I can't type large posts because I'm on holiday, but thinking that'll stop me replying. 😂
You conveniently steer the debate away from the point here.
First off, he may say there is no definitive answer. He's right. No duels between similar levelled opponents have a definitive answer, there are always scenarios for a victory. However he simply states "The Exile is probably a better duelist". That's his statement, completely different from the rest of his reply.
Secondly, the fighter analogy is not what you're making it out to be. If you look at what his first response about Revan is, he's saying Revans greatest strength is his force power, not dueling. Just like an older boxers best advantage is knowledge and tactics, not Strength.
What he is saying is that it's unfair to strip Revan of his best advantages while leaving the Exile her best advantage. But that's irrelevant, because that's exactly what this thread is as well.
Regardless, I've replied asking for confirmation. We shall see what he has to say about the matter, I suppose.
It is amusing watching you squirm out of this though. Very amusing indeed 👆
First off, he may say there is no definitive answer. He's right. No duels between similar levelled opponents have a definitive answer, there are always scenarios for a victory. However he simply states "The Exile is probably a better duelist". That's his statement, completely different from the rest of his reply.
Secondly, the fighter analogy is not what you're making it out to be. If you look at what his first response about Revan is, he's saying Revans greatest strength is his force power, not dueling. Just like an older boxers best advantage is knowledge and tactics, not Strength.
So even then, if we take the quote at direct face value, Revan is still beating Surik in a lightsaber battle unless they were both stripped of the Force. And even then? We don't know for sure, unless you think Vader = Bane, of course.
It is amusing watching you squirm out of this though. Very amusing indeed thumb up
Ok, so you've made several hilarious statements in that post. I need to clarify that you indeed mean what it looks like you're saying.
> Do you believe Force augmentation relies purely on force power?
> You believe Avellone has more weight than Drew, despite his ridiculous opinions on other areas, and the fact he hasn't written these characters for a decade?
> You believe fact and interpretation are the same thing?
Simple yes and no answers will suffice.
Edit: You also believe Revan vs Vader isn't close? Which side stomps, Ant?
Heh, it's so funny how you try to twist the discussion. I accept your concession on all points not responded to (everything, basically).
Originally posted by Selenial
> Do you believe Force augmentation relies purely on force power?
Originally posted by Selenial
> You believe Avellone has more weight than Drew, despite his ridiculous opinions on other areas, and the fact he hasn't written these characters for a decade?
Originally posted by Selenial
Edit: You also believe Revan vs Vader isn't close? Which side stomps, Ant?
So you're picking and choosing what Author quotes you believe in based on what you think Canon justifies? So you're saying Avellone's quote is nothing more in a debate than your opinion?
And why is "it's close" less valid than "it's a stomp"? Since that seems to be how you're viewing Avellone's quote.
I'm also curious if you realise how retarded your force augmentation argument is. I'll allow you to reconsider before I point out the flaws, tbh.
As to your original post, what's there to reply to really? You say it's my interpretation, when really it's not. Though this will be settled when Drew responds. Your only other part was basically saying Avellone > Drew.
So I can refute your entire posts in two sentences, huh 👆
You basically said "Drew has more credibility because Avellone has said some bogus things in the past." mmm
If you want to bring it down to who has more credibility, Drew or Avellone, I propose we take the middle and conclude Revan >> Surik in sabers.
That seems the most reasonable route. If you want to continue to argue Drew vs Avellone though, I will gladly do so as well.
Drew has more credibility than Avellone. If anything because Drew's written them both at varying points in their timeline, and even though he detests Surik is happy to give her the respect he thinks she deserves. Though I guess that isn't super relevant.
There is no way to reach a middle ground, that's a retarded definition of a compromise. One says she wins, but it's unfair to make it savers only. One says he stomps. Nothing else. Those aren't compatible to reach a halfway point, and if you have to look at which is more credible?
It's like looking at the old CW Cartoon vs the New One.