Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah, but then a lot of people are stupid. If she is the best for the job it should give you an idea at how poor our selection of candidates is.
I wouldn't disagree with that, the field this election is pretty pathetic. Although tbh, I think Clinton is a strong candidate in most fields. She does have the baggage of decades of Republican attacks of course, but she has a pretty strong track record, both the work she's done as first lady and her political career (including Secretary of State) afterwards.
Originally posted by Surtur
You could of just said "she's doing better because she is raising tons of cash" and saved yourself some trouble.
Note, this is not talking about her own fundraising, and this isn't her money directly.
This is her doing calls & other support to get donors to support candidates other than her downballot.
And Bernie is quite capable of doing the same. Heck, I believe he's even out-fundraising her on some months.
The point isn't that he hasn't done as much, it's that he hasn't done any to speak of. And people notice that, and that's why they're going, "Oh, hey, she's supporting other candidates I like, in my home state or in congress. And I like that."
Frankly I don't care if she raises a trillion dollars, I don't want her anywhere near the White House unless it's on a guided tour.This is why in some ways it makes me utterly sick. It's really never just about who could do a good job versus who couldn't. It's the almighty f*cking dollar and shockingly when it comes to the almighty buck you have a Clinton coming out on top.
Believe it or not, money is needed to run a campaign. Why do you think Bernie Sanders is fundraising at all?
The point of this is it's fundraising for the representatives, governors, state legislature people, etc.. The people who'd help whichever candidate get in their ideas.
There's a lot to be said for supporting candidates who are on your side.
Cynically tossing that aside as being all about the money is missing the point. It's about helping like-minded people getting into positions where they can help.
Heck, that's one of the big reasons the Republicans are afraid of Cruz winning- they think it'd hurt downballot support so much that it'd cost them a ton of other positions in a way that even a Rubio loss wouldn't.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I think a lot of people also just think that she would do the best job...
Right, and the fact that his proposals clearly need this wider support and he's running on causing a 'political revolution,' and he doesn't seem to be doing much to make it happen outside, makes the practicality argument seem even more concrete.
Surtur
Yeah, but then a lot of people are stupid. If she is the best for the job it should give you an idea at how poor our selection of candidates is.
Considering she did a good job as a Senator, and as Secretary of State is noted for having run the state department smoothly and been very well received by foreign countries and did a solid job there according to political analysts, I would say a lot of that is simply partisan preference rather than an actual indication of her ability.
Even in the first Republican debate, a major Republican candidate (I think Rubio) noted if it turns into a resume contest, Hillary's got everyone beat.
She clearly has the skills to get things done politically, and I'd be curious to here what policies of hers are apparently so bad considering that they have a lot of overlap with Obama's successful policies, plus more on wallstreet reform and immigration reform.
Like, I can tell you exactly what policies of the Republican candidates I don't like or are just off-the-wall in what their practical effects would be, and I can even tell you some policies of Bernie Sanders that are just bird-brained (He wants to replace the board of the Federal Reserve, a non-partisan organization in charge of banking regulation and decisions on stuff like interest rates that require a lot of economists knowledge that performed very well in the wake of the financial crash and is one of the biggest factors in our recovery, with politically selected people without banking experience chosen by the senate. The totally divided senate that's been bad at getting things done. Oh, and he wants to make a law against raising interest rates until unemployment is down below 4%... which is actual unhealthy levels of unemployment and basically amounts to never being able to use interest rates as an economic tool ever again. Bernie, good guy in some ways, but that's economic gibberish).
What specific policy of Hillary's do you think is a sign of lack of skill in doing the job, rather than something you just don't like about her?
That's really one of the big thing I notice here, and elsewhere, almost all of the attacks on Hillary are about her character (IMO overblown, but whatever), while very few even attempt to address her policies.
Hillary Clinton credits her Nevada victory to an inescapable, pitch-black tide of fate from which no man, woman, or child could ever hope to escape.
“Do not attempt to flee or hide, for the stygian waters I have unleashed upon this earth will sweep along all in their path. Those who stand with me shall ride the crest of this woeful tidal bore all the way through Super Tuesday and unto the very steps of the White House itself. And let any who would try to stem this mighty surge be borne under the dark-winged waters, where their pleas for mercy will go unheard by the world, stifled and subdued forevermore.”At press time, Clinton was reminding supporters there was still plenty of work ahead to secure a win in South Carolina next week.
(The Onion, but I think people'll find it fun.)
How Bernie won, even if he loses
Discussing how he already made his mark in history and political discourse in the nation, even if he doesn't win the primary.
Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]And this is the type of person that makes up the party that claims to be "Open Minded and Tolerant" Ladies and Germs.Hypocrites to the core.
[/B]
I'm very open minded. I've opened my mind to the current conservative zietgiest, and have found it wanting to a staggering degree.
A reasonable person need only look at the current crop of Republican candidates, with a clear and unbiased eye, and realize that none of them are fit for public office.
American conservatives are a plague on this Earth. A festering pit of bad ideas that are so dangerous as to threaten the prosperity of this country. Indeed, American conservative ideas are a threat to the entire world, because POTUS will shape the world in one way or another.
Originally posted by Lucius
I'm very open minded. I've opened my mind to the current conservative zietgiest, and have found it wanting to a staggering degree.A reasonable person need only look at the current crop of Republican candidates, with a clear and unbiased eye, and realize that none of them are fit for public office.
American conservatives are a plague on this Earth. A festering pit of bad ideas that are so dangerous as to threaten the prosperity of this country. Indeed, American conservative ideas are a threat to the entire world, because POTUS will shape the world in one way or another.
Spoiler:
here's hoping Trump is a secret democrat tho lol
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larry-womack/dear-bernie-red-flags-frequent_b_9289954.html
Bernie's campaign promises get scrutinized and not everything is up to snuff...
Good article, the Federal Reserve one is a thing I've been bothered by since... well, waaay back in this thread ^^ Bernie dislikes wallstreet, and sometimes that's fine, but sometimes it leads to him proposing worst stuff.
Here is a set of polls by Public Policy Polling that has a state-by-state breakdown of what people in each prefer of Bernie or Hillary on different specific areas. Who'd they rather have as commander and chief, deal with immigration, women's issues, wall street, etc..
Vermont freakin' loves Bernie Sanders ^^ But a lot of the numbers surprised me.
Also there's a number of polls for a lot of the march primary states so you can see what's in reach of whom.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Sanders is in deep trouble now. He should he harder. We will soon find out if he has the stomach for a real fight.
IMO, his mistake was waiting so long before working to connect with minority voters. Sure, his message to them isn't bad when he did so, but it takes time to make inroads, and Hillary always moved first- sometimes months earlier- in bringing their issues to the discussion.
He actually did make some inroads with younger hispanics it seems, but he's on the back heal. Harry Enten of 538 said he's in a 'chasing after the icecream truck' position. He might stay not far behind, but catching up is very hard.
Since the Democrats do proportional voting rather than winner takes all, just close calls and close wins aren't enough, not if Hillary is going to be getting big leads in big states like South Carolina and Texas, and Bernie is only getting big leads in New Hampshire and Vermont and maybe Massachusetts.
Originally posted by Lestov16
So it seems to be shaping up to be Trump vs Clinton. I will congratulate Trump. When he first announced his campaign I doubted he would make it through the year,but apparently I underestimated exactly how pathetic and incompetent the GOP really was.
Currently betting odds are 50%+ with him for good reason!
Rubio is viewed as still being in, due to the endorsements pouring in... but it may be the case that he needs Cruz to drop out before he can really draw enough to compete, giving Trump the good path, and even with Bush out things weren't as close as the establishment is hoping, so, yea, he's got a shot, but he's the underdog.
Cruz, meanwhile, has single digit percentages, due to every state he's competitive in being proportional, while the other two can fight in winner-takes-all states. That and underperforming in SC. The math says he's doomed, in short.
Kasich is staying in (recently expanded to some more states), which is interesting considering he has no chance and hurts Rubio a few points- speculation of mine is he's collecting a few delegates to try and trade for the VP slot if things are close in the convention.
Carson is staying in probably just to spite Cruz for Iowa's 'oh he dropped out' stunt. That or he literally doesn't know when to quit.
And them hanging around only helps Trump, so, yea.
Originally posted by Lestov16
So it seems to be shaping up to be Trump vs Clinton. I will congratulate Trump. When he first announced his campaign I doubted he would make it through the year,but apparently I underestimated exactly how pathetic and incompetent the GOP really was.
I really hope you are wrong because if it's Clinton vs Trump..I don't think Trump could actually beat her.
But to me I see this entire presidential race as pathetic. It's a circus. It's one of those things that people tune in to hear what certain candidates will say..but it's not because they care about the issues and want to know what each person represents..it's because they want to see what stupid shit someone will say next.
It's basically the political version of the tv show "Jackass". You don't actually care about the people on that show, you just wanted to see them do stupid stuff and possibly get injured. Which just like in Jackass there are no winners here..we all kinda lose.
So this is a pretty scary set of data to me
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/25/upshot/measuring-donald-trumps-supporters-for-intolerance.html
I mean Trump has the most supporters right now so when 30% of his supporters say some of this stuff that is a scary percentage to me.
Originally posted by Surtur
I really hope you are wrong because if it's Clinton vs Trump..I don't think Trump could actually beat her.
That's what I'm hoping for. Out of Hillary, Sanders, Trump, and Rubio, I view Hillary as having the best qualifications and strategies to achieve the progress the public desires. Sanders is too idealistic, Trump is too egotistical, and Rubio is too much of a Washington shill. So I'm officially rooting for Hillary.
http://thefederalist.com/2016/02/24/ill-take-hillary-clinton-over-donald-trump/
Republican stating why he'll vote for Hillary over Trump