Originally posted by tkitnaIt's not debatable. Superman has the greater speed feats. These are fictional characters.
Clark being faster is debatable, but then again DC comics seems to put measurements alongside their characters like nanoseconds and so forth while Marvel doesnt do silly stuff like that. Anyway, I didnt know Clark had such a lovely voice. Thats wonderful. Besides Sentry having the same powerset as Clark, he's also a powerful matter manipulator, a telepath, has no weakness to magic or green rocks, and doesnt need a constant supply of solar energy to keep him at peak levels. With CIS off Sentry wins.
Originally posted by h1a8
It's not debatable. Superman has the greater speed feats. These are fictional characters.
Sentry has no defense against being sung out of existence.
Based on what? Sentry is a psionic manifestation of Bob's mind. What you apply to other characters can not be applied to the Sentry. He was dead, and then he came back. It's obvious that he is beyond the realms of Death and Life, and that they do not apply to him/it. If not, prove that he can be sung out of existence.
Originally posted by StoicWhat are you talking about? Are you claiming that Sentry can't be sung out of existence? Prove that Sentry is a psionic manifestation of Bob's mind. Even if that's true, then Bob still loses the match once he loses his body.
Based on what? Sentry is a psionic manifestation of Bob's mind. What you apply to other characters can not be applied to the Sentry. He was dead, and then he came back. It's obvious that he is beyond the realms of Death and Life, and that they do not apply to him/it. If not, prove that he can be sung out of existence.
Originally posted by h1a8
What are you talking about? Are you claiming that Sentry can't be sung out of existence? [B]Prove that Sentry is a psionic manifestation of Bob's mind. Even if that's true, then Bob still loses the match once he loses his body. [/B]
This is pretty much the whole basis for the Void and the Sentry though mate. The Sentry is Robert Reynolds representation of Good. And the Void is a representation of all the bad parts of him being a drug dealer, Schizophrenic etc.
Robert Reynolds at his uttermost base operates as just a soul.
Originally posted by h1a8
What are you talking about? Are you claiming that Sentry can't be sung out of existence? Prove that Sentry is a psionic manifestation of Bob's mind. Even if that's true, then Bob still loses the match once he loses his body.
Bob existed in a universe of his own making when not taking the role of the Sentry. In order to defeat him, you would have to defeat him in a universe/reality of his own making. This singing out of existence thing does not apply to him. Scott do you have the scans of him when Emma visits him inside of his mind or universe of his own making?
Originally posted by Stoic
Bob existed in a universe of his own making when not taking the role of the Sentry. In order to defeat him, you would have to defeat him in a universe/reality of his own making. This singing out of existence thing does not apply to him. Scott do you have the scans of him when Emma visits him inside of his mind or universe of his own making?
It wasn't really a Universe of his own making or anything though. It was something Emma Frost created for Robert himself when he went off his medication once. It isn't like an alternate Universe where he resides. They reside psionically in that realm but they are still on Earth while there.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
It wasn't really a Universe of his own making or anything though. It was something Emma Frost created for Robert himself when he went off his medication once. It isn't like an alternate Universe where he resides. They reside psionically in that realm but they are still on Earth while there.
Where was Bob's body then? If Sentry is a manifestation of Bob's mind where does Bob go when the Sentry is running around? This is why I said that he had to have been in a reality of his own making. Also how could Emma create something that was already there? I'd really like a solid explanation of the Sentry. I still believe that my understanding of most of his powers are on point minus a few discrepancies.
Originally posted by Stoic
Where was Bob's body then? If Sentry is a manifestation of Bob's mind where does Bob go when the Sentry is running around? This is why I said that he had to have been in a reality of his own making. Also how could Emma create something that was already there? I'd really like a solid explanation of the Sentry. I still believe that my understanding of most of his powers are on point minus a few discrepancies.
Bobs body was inside the forcefield.
Presumably from how the comics carried on Bob simply morphs into the Sentry and later on morphs into the Void.
Although earlier on like in Sentry Vol 2 this wasn't the case.
My point about it being created was a reference to Emma saying this when Sentry was fighting Namor.
I can help you with an explanation if you want mate. What sort of things are you looking for.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Although it's worth mentioning (perhaps more to H1) is that this comic makes it easier to understand the Void being a psionic manifestation. As soon as Robert comes around again. The Void instantly dissipates.Also to H1, I can explain this a bit more indepth if you want.
I knew that void was a physical manifestation. Hard light construct created by Sentry actually. I need proof for Sentry himself being one also.
Originally posted by StoicNot trying to step on Scot's toes here, but during that particular scene, the 'Bob' persona became dormant because Void had been unleashed:
Where was Bob's body then? If Sentry is a manifestation of Bob's mind where does Bob go when the Sentry is running around?
Liken it to Banner/Hulk. When Banner is calm, the Hulk persona stays dormant and he is just a peaceful, happy go lucky scientist. However, when Banner gets angry, the Hulk persona takes the stage, and 'Banner' is put on the 'mental-backburner'. This is very similar to what happens with Bob/Sentry when the Void is unleashed. Cosmic schizophrenia.
Maybe Scot has a different take, but that's how I've always viewed it. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007
Not trying to step on Scot's toes here, but during that particular scene, the 'Bob' persona became dormant because Void had been unleashed:Liken it to Banner/Hulk. When Banner is calm, the Hulk persona stays dormant, and he is just a peaceful, happy go lucky scientist. However, when Banner gets angry, the Hulk persona takes the stage, and 'Banner' is put on the 'mental-backburner'. This is very similar to what happens with Bob/Sentry when the Void is unleashed.
Maybe Scot has a different take, but that's how I've always viewed it. /shrug
I agree with you mate. It just looks different from Sentry Vol 2 progressing into SIEGE purely because of Robert slowly and more slowly becoming more insane as time goes on. Back in Sentry Vol 2 even though Robert was unstable he was able to retain a form of semblance. And it was only when he was really pressed (by Dr Cornelius for example) that he goes crazy and they come out.
It's kind of hard to debate the differing scenes of Sentry Vol 2 up to SIEGE but I find what you and me have said is the best way to explain it.
Originally posted by h1a8
I knew that void was a physical manifestation. Hard light construct created by Sentry actually. I need proof for Sentry himself being one also.
Right okay then. I'll show you this one.
When Robert/Sentry/Voidtry "died". Obviously he is a charred corpse.
Nicked this image from Galan.
So you think Robert is dead. But he isn't. Since we see here when he is back.
He was a skeleton. Yet his soul existed without his body against the Void to get control of his body. You may think I haven't answered your question. This again is an answer for both characters.
This explains it even more deeply. You see the words Dr Cornelius says himself.
Although as the comics progress Robert steadily becomes more unstable and he himself turns into the Void. And he for the most part always stays as the Sentry. Although like I said this can be attributed to his mental instability.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Bobs body was inside the forcefield.Presumably from how the comics carried on Bob simply morphs into the Sentry and later on morphs into the Void.
Although earlier on like in Sentry Vol 2 this wasn't the case.
My point about it being created was a reference to Emma saying this when Sentry was fighting Namor.
I can help you with an explanation if you want mate. What sort of things are you looking for.
Well I'm thrown in two different directions. We know that DS Sentry is just Sentry with augmentations, but it did not change the way that his powers work, just gave him a greater focal point on the use of his powers (IfI'm not mistaken). However if Bob morphed into this Super Strong construct, how is it that Bob is not killed when he rips his head open? Bob himself is not immortal... See where the confusion comes up? It would be far easier to imagine that Bob shifts into a reality of his own making, and manifests the Sentry while he is in that place? I'd really like to write these ideas for Marvel to go over, because the discrepancies surrounding Robert Reynolds make people go in several different directions when trying to understand exactly what he is, and how his power work or come from.
Originally posted by Stoic
Well I'm thrown in two different directions. We know that DS Sentry is just Sentry with augmentations, but it did not change the way that his powers work, just gave him a greater focal point on the use of his powers (IfI'm not mistaken). However if Bob morphed into this Super Strong construct, how is it that Bob is not killed when he rips his head open? Bob himself is not immortal... See where the confusion comes up? It would be far easier to imagine that Bob shifts into a reality of his own making, and manifests the Sentry while he is in that place? I'd really like to write these ideas for Marvel to go over, because the discrepancies surrounding Robert Reynolds make people go in several different directions when trying to understand exactly what he is, and how his power work or come form.
You're correct that it basically gave him a focal point. The Death Seed replaced the hole left by the Void. Sentry now had a cause (to protect humans and kill "cancerous mutants"😉.
I'm not sure entirely what you mean here,
"However if Bob morphed into this Super Strong construct, how is it that Bob is not killed when he rips his head open?"
(If I am incorrect in replying to this please let me know)
I don't know what you mean specifically by Super Strong construct (unless by that you mean the Sentry himself).
It is explained by what Bob mentions here.
This mortal shell is only flesh and the soul is what drives him. So even if he was killed (Molecule Man, Morgana Le Fay for examples). Bob just wishes himself back because he is still alive as a soul.
But remember in the past he was always exploring his new powers. But presumably as Death Sentry he is 100% Stable so he now understands everything. Bob himself is immortal (at least as a soul). So this can be extrapolated that the Sentry and the Void are mental constructs. And even the very body of Robert Reynolds himself is also a mental construct. Because how otherwise did he survive death at the end of SIEGE? (< meant that as a rhetorical question)
I disagree that he manifests in another reality like you have mentioned. The way I see it is perhaps in the middle of Roberts body (and his personas). There is an invisible orb of energy (that you call a soul).
Describe how a soul looks however you like to be honest. And then when he dies he can either come back or not. Like MM or fighting the Void so he can remain a skeleton.
We can't say where this soul exists. It could be in a village in Belize when he dies (this is meant sarcastically). I just think the souls lingers inside Roberts body. Then when his body is wiped. His soul is the only thing that lives since essentially that is the Sentry. Not the artificial constructs created by it.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
You're correct that it basically gave him a focal point. The Death Seed replaced the hole left by the Void. Sentry now had a cause (to protect humans and kill "cancerous mutants"😉.I'm not sure entirely what you mean here,
"However if Bob morphed into this Super Strong construct, how is it that Bob is not killed when he rips his head open?"
(If I am incorrect in replying to this please let me know)
I don't know what you mean specifically by Super Strong construct (unless by that you mean the Sentry himself).
It is explained by what Bob mentions here.
This mortal shell is only flesh and the soul is what drives him. So even if he was killed (Molecule Man, Morgana Le Fay for examples). Bob just wishes himself back because he is still alive as a soul.
But remember in the past he was always exploring his new powers. But presumably as Death Sentry he is 100% Stable so he now understands everything. Bob himself is immortal (at least as a soul). So this can be extrapolated that the Sentry and the Void are mental constructs. And even the very body of Robert Reynolds himself is also a mental construct. Because how otherwise did he survive death at the end of SIEGE? (< meant that as a rhetorical question)
I disagree that he manifests in another reality like you have mentioned. The way I see it is perhaps in the middle of Roberts body (and his personas). There is an invisible orb of energy (that you call a soul).
Describe how a soul looks however you like to be honest. And then when he dies he can either come back or not. Like MM or fighting the Void so he can remain a skeleton.
We can't say where this soul exists. It could be in a village in Belize when he dies (this is meant sarcastically). I just think the souls lingers inside Roberts body. Then when his body is wiped. His soul is the only thing that lives since essentially that is the Sentry. Not the artificial constructs created by it.
I get that, but where is this soul? For me it seems like DS Sentry, Void, and Sentry are just cast off bodies, while Bob exist in some sort of null space as the puppeteer. I guess that we can look at it from different points of view? I'd really love for marvel to nail his powers down and make some sort of tangible sense. I've always thought of Sentry as an idea withing Bob's mind made solid while he disappeared into that white space that was visited by Emma, but now seeing the scans that you presented makes that idea less likely because we actually see Bob's physical body, unless that was also a construct of his making? Marvel should really attempt to make more sense of this character, because he's one of the more interesting ones out there.
Originally posted by Galan007
Not trying to step on Scot's toes here, but during that particular scene, the 'Bob' persona became dormant because Void had been unleashed:
Liken it to Banner/Hulk. When Banner is calm, the Hulk persona stays dormant and he is just a peaceful, happy go lucky scientist. However, when Banner gets angry, the Hulk persona takes the stage, and 'Banner' is put on the 'mental-backburner'. This is very similar to what happens with Bob/Sentry when the Void is unleashed. Cosmic schizophrenia.
Maybe Scot has a different take, but that's how I've always viewed it. /shrug
I think that you're partially correct, but some things don't jive. Something is missing.
