Sorcerers Galore

Well, to get back on topic......

To look at a potential way this fight could go down.

Sadow V.S. Zannah ; Wyrrlock V.S. Nox

Sadow V.S. Zannah could go either way. Sadow is skilled with illusions though I doubt those will fool Zannah regardless. I would be inclined to go with Sadow, unless Zannah is able to conjure her Dark Side Tendrils and annihilate him, in a close fight. Personally I am unfamiliar with how long it takes to use this ability though I feel Sadow could pressure Zannah with force abilities to keep her from utilizing it effectively. Though arguments for the opposite are welcome.

Wyyrlok V.S. Nox is an interesting match-up in my opinion. Wyyrlok is damned impressive at illusions and mental assaults, as well as Force lightning. As well as being a very good duelist as he held his own against Krayt for a time. However these are Force abilities Nox's ascent to power gives him magnitudes of defense against, and Wyyrlok is hardly one to rush in for a duel. Specifically Wyyrlok's mental assaults. In this case I feel the sheer uselessness of Wyyrlok's most potent techniques against a mentally-fortified, Mother-Machine-Rebuilt Nox would gives Nox a crippling advantage over Wyyrlok. Ultimately leading to a hard-fought, but achievable, victory.

After that, Nox V.S. Sadow I have no idea currently. Of course I appreciate others elaborating on where I may be incorrect, and thoughts on the likelihood of this scenario.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
"stories," to borrow your word, aren't exactly convincing. accolades and feats from more concrete sources like the swtor codex and stuff are much more persuasive.

I mean if we took every character's claim at face value in absence of direct contradiction, I'm sure consensus would be quite different.

"Lord of Hate, Master of the Gathering Darkness and Dark Lord of the Sith. These are but a few of the titles worn by the great Tulak Hord. His command of the dark side and mastery of lightsaber techniques won Hord many battles, and each victory earned him enemies abroad and within the Sith ranks. Of the many who challenged his might, none were successful. Among Hord’s greatest triumphs were the battles of Yn and Chabosh. With an army of dark side warriors and his faithful Dashade assassin at his side, he annihilated the rebels who defied the expansion of the Sith Empire and went on to conquer the Dromund system–setting the stage for Dromund Kaas to eventually become capital of the Empire. Imperial historians believe the worlds conquered by Hord number in the hundreds, but any records from his bygone era were lost in the Great Hyperspace War." - SW:ToR, Codex Entry, Tomb of Tulak Hord.

Emphasis mine. So much for the "He killed 1,000 Jedi on his own"-myth. He had an army of "dark side warriors" with him to do the job.

That aside: Khem Val constantly belittles Nox when comparing the character to Tulak Hord. Whether this stems from Khem's fondness for his old master or if this is actually true can be seen as debateable. However. You may want to think about the fact, that pretty much everything Nox is capable of is based on the knowledge of Hord, who, for all we know, had decades or even centuries to put that knowledge to use.

And even then: Khem Val things that probably Nox is powerful enough to become the heir of Tulak Hord (against his previous thoughts), but that certainly doesn't put Nox on one level with Hord - much less above him.

Lastly, you may want to consider the facts, that Sadow has been labeled one of the most powerful Sith sorcerers ever and that all the Sith following after him, where essentially operating with a fraction of the knowledge that Sadow himself possessed. So I'd say the original Sith sorcerer here takes this fight more often than not, when it is done in a "Last Man Standing" fashion.

Everyone knows he had an army of dark side warriors.

The question was always if he took them along to both Yn and Chabosh.

Khem Val says he soloed Yn, which had at least a thousand Jedi.

Uh, yeah. The whole story was that he broke a siege single handedly. You can't have a siege if no-ones getting besieged. Doesn't mean he had to have used help.

Alternatively, Ants right that nothing overtly states he had major forces with him in that particular battle.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Everyone knows he had an army of dark side warriors.

The question was always if he took them along to both Yn and Chabosh.

Khem Val says he soloed Yn, which had at least a thousand Jedi.

Why would he leave them on Chabosh and attack an army of 1,000 Jedi on his own exactly? And the text doesn't make a difference between the two battles. If Hord had decided to go and solo the 1,000-Jedi-army, the Codex would probably mention it.

That aside: How could Hord have done it "singlehandedly", when he had Khem Val with him? Probably, the Dashade wanted to express that Hord's action during the battle were, what ended the siege. I still doubt that he took down 1,000 Jedi himself - unless he prepared some ritual and Force drained them Vitiate style.

Hord grows stronger with each kill in a similar fashion to Khem. It's really not that unbelievable.

Originally posted by Selenial
Why is no one mentioning that successor and heir does not even remotely imply superior?

Are you blind, nobody has claimed that.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
a comparison which is virtually worthless when you consider the fact that most of what we know of Hord comes from khem val himself.

I have no doubt that Hord is beastly, but what beyond that?

👆

Originally posted by AncientPower
Are you blind, nobody has claimed that.

Lol.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Please show me the so-called quotes I've been hearing about where Khem Val says Nox surpassed Hord.

Originally posted by AncientPower
"You are the heir of Tulak Hord. Your strength is great. I will guard your legacy forever.”

Better yet Nox gets more powerful after Act III. Also, the spirits are not canon as Kun is asleep, Hord is on Korriban, etc... That is nothing but a minor collectible quest.

Is your English comprehension lacking? By act 2 Khem Val considers Lord Kallig a potential successor to Tulak Hord because of her new strength. Once crowned Khem Val considers Nox to be Hord's true hier because of how powerful she is.

Darth Nox grows more powerful over the years leading to the Revanite War, during said war Nox's immortality and power is increased by ancient machines in the 'Secret of the Darkest Stars'. Nox is still growing more powerful, still has vast potential to achieve and is clearly the most powerful Sith in the galaxy by 4.0.

Just so you can process that: Nox grew more powerful past the point Khem Val believes she achieved the strength to be his true hier and successor.

Understand now, it is really quite simple.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Is your English comprehension lacking? By act 2 Khem Val considers Lord Kallig a potential successor to Tulak Hord because of her new strength. Once crowned Khem Val considers Nox to be Hord's true hier because of how powerful she is.

Darth Nox grows more powerful over the years leading to the Revanite War, during said war Nox's immortality and power is increased by ancient machines in the 'Secret of the Darkest Stars'. Nox is still growing more powerful, still has vast potential to achieve and is clearly the most powerful Sith in the galaxy by 4.0.

Just so you can process that: Nox grew more powerful past the point Khem Val believes she achieved the strength to be his true hier and successor.

Understand now, it is really quite simple.

And literally none of that means she's Hord's superior 👆

I'm glad you understand.

:mmmm:

Originally posted by AncientPower
:mmmm:

At this time I'd like to offer my services as a translator. I understand English is apparently difficult for you, so at your request I would be happy to rewrite this thread in Spanish, French, German or Norwegian so you might better understand how mentally deformed you are portraying yourself to be.

In case that still isn't good enough for you, perhaps I can put your argument in algebraic terms so you might understand how ****ing retarded it actually is 👆

Kulvax AP's argument:
A = Nox
B = Hord
Numerical value = Arbitrary power gain.

A < B
Therefore A+2 > B.

Yeh, you go to any mathematician and they'll tell you how disabled that is.

Nox defeated "supremely powerful" Darth Thanaton, Hord dies.

****ing Thanaton could fly with lightning

Clearly the sign of a Vader level force user

You guys are so mean to each other. 🙁

Vader can't even use lightning, what a loser.

Originally posted by carthage
****ing Thanaton could fly with lightning

And after all this time, there's still nothing to put Nox > Hord.

Originally posted by Selenial
At this time I'd like to offer my services as a translator. I understand English is apparently difficult for you, so at your request I would be happy to rewrite this thread in Spanish, French, German or Norwegian so you might better understand how mentally deformed you are portraying yourself to be.

In case that still isn't good enough for you, perhaps I can put your argument in algebraic terms so you might understand how ****ing retarded it actually is 👆

Kulvax AP's argument:
A = Nox
B = Hord
Numerical value = Arbitrary power gain.

A < B
Therefore A+2 > B.

Yeh, you go to any mathematician and they'll tell you how disabled that is.

So let me get this straight. Khem Val compares Darth Nox to Tulak Hord in terms of strength and power. At first the Dashade believes Hord was far more powerful than the 'little Sith'. Then he changes his mind when Nox greatly impresses him with how much power she has achieved. Calling her Hord's true hier and successor(Revan was similarly awe-inspired by her rise to power).

And your interpretation of that is, it's absolutely no indication of power compared to Hord's and the fact she became much more powerful years after this is still absolutely no indication? Why do you people require so much hand-holding to grasp basic logical inferences?