Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Interesting to here that about your health care, I didn't know it was that great. What are the average premiums and deductibles.Also that system of wealth care runs off a capitalist revenue stream.
There aren't any premiums and deductibles- that's the point. Everyone is covered.
And that's in theory true- though the stream need not be capitalist- but a universal system like that is not capitalist in origin. It's a definite moderation of pure capitalism.
Even the US' capitalism is not completely pure of course.
Hence me saying it's not really what is meant by universal health care- but by reducing the number of uninsured people, it's moving in the right direction.
The problem is, capitalism has left the US health system absurdly over-priced. Look at that recent drug hike issue with Daraprim. Two sides to that insanity- first, the plan to raise the price of the pill from $13.50 to $750 each. The reasoning given? Pure profit motive- this was the market price they could get. This is a life saving pill. Pure profit motive here is not appropriate. Capitalism was not driving down prices here; the owners had a monopoly position.
But the other side is price in the first place- even the $13.50 is an insane markup for a pill that costs less than one tenth of that. The price per pill in the UK is under a dollar.
With profit motive infesting the US system like that, no wonder Obamacare costs so much, The culture has to be challenged.
Again, this is not sheer anti-capitalism. I would point to mobile phones as a capitalist success story- market forces here turned a luxury good into a widely accessible miracle of the modern world. But you can't apply these principles universally.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Raising the price on a drug like that is insane. I don't see how they have an excuse to do that. Do you know how long that product has been on the market, and do you know if there is a generic?
It's been available for about 70 years but has no generic counterpart because it's for treating a relatively rare thing.
They're not the 1st to do this kind of obscene price hike though. Rodelis done the same when they hiked Cycloserine from $500 per 30 tablets to over $10,000.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
It's an old drug, but I think the lack of any kind of generic was what allowed Shkreli to hike the prices to such a degree. There was literally NOTHING anyone could do about it after he bought the patent. That's the danger of unbridled capitalism when someone corners the market on something vital.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I still don't understand why anyone thinks life saving healthcare should be a for-profit thing.I can understand something like plastic surgery or even eye-care and orthodontia, but heart surgery, cancer treatment, and life saving medicines shouldn't be something that cost an arm and a leg.
Originally posted by jaden101
It's been available for about 70 years but has no generic counterpart because it's for treating a relatively rare thing.They're not the 1st to do this kind of obscene price hike though. Rodelis done the same when they hiked Cycloserine from $500 per 30 tablets to over $10,000.
There has to be a way to prevent that from happening through the FDA, vs full blown socialism. Why use a nuke to capitalism like (socialism)to blow up system that works up, when you can use a smaller tool, to tune certain things.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
There has to be a way to prevent that from happening through the FDA, vs full blown socialism. Why use a nuke to capitalism like (socialism)to blow up system that works up, when you can use a smaller tool, to tune certain things.
I completely agree, it just needs to be fixed. Either way is fine just let it be done right now, not argue about it for years while people die...
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
There has to be a way to prevent that from happening through the FDA, vs full blown socialism. Why use a nuke to capitalism like (socialism)to blow up system that works up, when you can use a smaller tool, to tune certain things.
Well absolutely (though I am still wary of the way you use 'socialism' to mean something reprehensible), but that is the whole reason I brought up the healthcare argument. You said earlier "That's the system", and my point was that it is a system open to challenge. When parts of the system bring negative results, it needs to be challenged. It's obvious in healthcare, but it extends to abusive practice in general business as well.
We cannot see the profit motive as the pure driver for society- it causes too many problems.
The problem with the profit motive is that it is meant to correlate with things that bring general good to society. And in many cases that is indeed the case- like I said about mobile phones, and indeed the computing industry in general.
But it is far from a perfect correlation and time and again people will chase the profit when it is against the public good, because of this culture that says that chasing profit is the main goal all around.
It's the same problem with target culture in public services. Enforcing targets (either rewarding meeting them or punishing failing them) is meant to motivate people to do the best in their jobs. But it is impossible to guarantee that arbitrary targets actually represent a job well done. With ticking the boxes on the targets being the main goal, people will do whatever they can to get the box ticked, even if the method used brings no benefit to the public at all.
At some point in society- indeed, at many points- an intervention into a free-market approach is needed.
I think the PBC (Public Benefit Corporation) construct is a good way to improve the current state of capitalism. Kickstarter is one of the more famous companies to have recently become a PBC:
https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-now-a-benefit-corporation
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
There has to be a way to prevent that from happening through the FDA, vs full blown socialism. Why use a nuke to capitalism like (socialism)to blow up system that works up, when you can use a smaller tool, to tune certain things.
Your problem is you view everyone who wants to change the system in however slight a manner as a full blown leftie socialist.
The polarisation of US politics doesn't help in formulating balanced opinions though and it's almost at crisis point.
That image shows just how ridiculous the situation has gotten.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
There has to be a way to prevent that from happening through the FDA, vs full blown socialism. Why use a nuke to capitalism like (socialism)to blow up system that works up, when you can use a smaller tool, to tune certain things.