Bill Nye to Anti-Abortionists: "You Literally Don't Know What You're Talking About"

Originally posted by long pig
You're not using moral logic, you're using legalistic logic. Libbos tend to see the government as their God, so I understand. I can do it too....

If I cause the death of a child in a mother's stomach, I go to jail for murder.

Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004

Title 18. Section 1841. Protection of Unborn Children

Nothing in this section shall be construed to permit the prosecution:
[list=1][*]of any person for conduct relating to an abortion for which the consent of the pregnant woman, or a person authorized by law to act on her behalf, has been obtained or for which such consent is implied by law;

[*]of any person for any medical treatment of the pregnant woman or her unborn child; or

[*]of any woman with respect to her unborn child.[/list]

Which isn't practiced in every state. Like in New Mexico.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
That someone "obviously died of natural causes" is a conclusion a medical examiner arrives at after conducting a medical examination to determine the cause of death.

If fertilized eggs are persons, then every time one fails to implant or is expelled with the uteral lining, a person has died, and the authorities have a responsibility to investigate the circumstances of that death to ensure that there was no wrong doing.

like i said earlier... you can be charged of murdering a fetus if you attack a pregnant woman. yet we don't have an investigation every time a woman miscarries...

Meh. Beckman's World was a way better show then Nye's.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004

Title 18. Section 1841. Protection of Unborn Children

Nothing in this section shall be construed to permit the prosecution:
[list=1][*]of any person for conduct relating to an abortion for which the consent of the pregnant woman, or a person authorized by law to act on her behalf, has been obtained or for which such consent is implied by law;

[*]of any person for any medical treatment of the pregnant woman or her unborn child; or

[*]of any woman with respect to her unborn child.[/list]

Originally posted by red g jacks
....only real difference is one has a body that has to be accounted for

like i said earlier... you can be charged of murdering a fetus if you attack a pregnant woman. yet we don't have an investigation every time a woman miscarries...

That is the entire point. If one truly believed that a fertilized egg is a person, then he would advocate for precisely that. That he does not completely belies what he claims to believe.

Why do babies only matter when it convenient?

Originally posted by long pig
And?

You are the one who presented that if one causes the death of a child in the womb, that he has committed a crime as some sort of argument against abortion, when the law you referenced specifically exempts abortion.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Why do babies only matter when it convenient?

Because nothing matters unless it's convenient?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
That is the entire point. If one truly believed that a fertilized egg is a person, then he would advocate for precisely that. That he does not completely belies what he claims to believe.

the lack of an investigation in this case would be mostly for pragmatic reasons

a zygote that doesnt implant wouldn't be investigated for the same reason a body that is never found at the bottom of the hudson doesn't get investigated.

Originally posted by red g jacks
i don't think that follows

the lack of an investigation in this case would be mostly for pragmatic reasons

a zygote that doesnt implant wouldn't be investigated for the same reason a body that is never found at the bottom of the hudson doesn't get investigated.

So why aren't women who admit publicly to having a miscarriage investigated?

You should go sign up for that job, it would be good for your feminism.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
You should go sign up for that job, it would be good for your feminism.

I don't know whether I'd take that job, too many crazies out there, might get killed.

Originally posted by Bardock42
So why aren't women who admit publicly to having a miscarriage investigated?

but even if abortion were made illegal, i'm not sure about how you investigate a miscarriage. i don't know enough about the medical side of it.

but honestly the fact that there isn't an investigation is a lot less important than the fact that whether or not there's an investigation, you can be charged with murdering a fetus if you're not the mother.

because protection against murder only applies to people. and if the fetus is not a person then it should be impossible to murder it. it's as if the personhood in this case depends on who the killer is. there is no logical rationale to it at all.

honestly i don't even want to ban abortion. but if you have to kill your unborn child how about just admit that's what you're doing instead of coming up with a bunch of convoluted BS to sidestep any moral dilemma.

either way... looks like you and adam poe might just get your wish after all...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/26/1287527/-Kansas-Moves-to-make-Miscarriages-an-Investigation-Event-and-Defund-Planned-Parenthood

try to contain your joy, guys

Originally posted by red g jacks
well as it stands, abortion is legal. so there's really no reason to.

but even if abortion were made illegal, i'm not sure about how you investigate a miscarriage. i don't know enough about the medical side of it.

but honestly the fact that there isn't an investigation is a lot less important than the fact that whether or not there's an investigation, you can be charged with murdering a fetus if you're not the mother.

because protection against murder only applies to people. and if the fetus is not a person then it should be impossible to murder it. it's as if the personhood in this case depends on who the killer is. there is no logical rationale to it at all.

honestly i don't even want to ban abortion. but if you have to kill your unborn child how about just admit that's what you're doing instead of coming up with a bunch of convoluted BS to sidestep any moral dilemma.

Well, actually, my right to physical separation is perfectly logical within that framework. If you have the right to separate yourself from another person that is connected to your body, even if that person dies, it does not follow that someone else is allowed to kill this person without consequences.

either way the point is it's a person if you can murder it

so at the very least pro-abortion rhetoric needs to stop using propaganda to dehumanize it.

Originally posted by red g jacks
either way the point is it's a person if you can murder it

so at the very least pro-abortion rhetoric needs to stop using propaganda to dehumanize it.

You understand that many pro-choice people disagree with it being a person, even if in some jurisdictions the law is different.

i understand that. it's just a convenient excuse for them to kill with impunity. it's a part of the dehumanization campaign i cited earlier. all i'm saying is it's either a person or not.

if we draw the line at a certain month of development, then fine. causing the miscarriage of an embryo prior to that stage of development should never be murder, then.

Originally posted by red g jacks
i understand that. it's just a convenient excuse for them to kill with impunity. it's a part of the dehumanization campaign i cited earlier. all i'm saying is it's either a person or not.

if we draw the line at a certain month of development, then fine. causing the miscarriage of an embryo prior to that stage of development should never be murder, then.

Excluding the dehumanization campaign part, I agree.