Cube Beings vs Celestials (or just about any other cosmic)....

Remember back to that famous, ancient, quote by Kubik when he said the Celestials were several orders of magnitude greater than himself...

My question is does that still apply today?

We have seen time and time again feats by Cube Beings that take a big nasty crap all over the feats of Celestials and almost any other cosmic being in comics...

We've seen Kubik and the Shaper of Worlds reality Warp an entire universe without much effort...

We've seen the Maker (who is perhaps the weakest Cube Being we've seen) one shot KO Thanos when Galactus, Omega, and Odin failed to do so...

Post Retcon Beyonders power remade all of reality on an instant...

So, which has more merit; the more recent raw feats of power demonstrated by Cube Beings or on panel words that are more than 20 years old?

I ask this because based on feats/on panel displays of power, Cube Beings appear to be the ones that are several orders of magnitude greater than Celestials...not the other way around.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Remember back to that famous, ancient, quote by Kubik when he said the Celestials were several orders of magnitude greater than himself...

My question is does that still apply today?

We have seen time and time again feats by Cube Beings that take a big nasty crap all over the feats of Celestials and almost any other cosmic being in comics...

We've seen Kubik and the Shaper of Worlds reality Warp an entire universe without much effort...

We've seen the Maker (who is perhaps the weakest Cube Being we've seen) one shot KO Thanos when Galactus, Omega, and Odin failed to do so...

Post Retcon Beyonders power remade all of reality on an instant...

So, which has more merit; the more recent raw feats of power demonstrated by Cube Beings or on panel words that are more than 20 years old?

I ask this because based on feats/on panel displays of power, Cube Beings appear to be the ones that are several orders of magnitude greater than Celestials...not the other way around.

Surfer is using Shaper of Worlds power to remake the universe. He even recreated Galactus then decided to destroy him because he didn't want him in the newly created universe.

Cubes stomp Celestials.

PS, welcome back 😄

Thanx zop! :-)

And yeah, I saw that with the Shapers power; very impressive...

That feat, along with many others, supports Mephisto's view (during the Infinity Crusade) that a lone CCU (and thus a Cube Being by extension) is theoretically the equal of the full Infinity Gauntlet...

Based on what we've seen so far, all signs point to Mephisto being correct...

Originally posted by zopzop
Uhm LoM, have you not seen what's going on in the current Silver Surfer series?

Surfer is using Shaper of Worlds power to remake the universe. He even recreated Galactus then decided to destroy him because he didn't want him in the newly created universe.

Cubes stomp Celestials.

PS, welcome back 😄

Yeah Kubik's spiel made no sense whatsoever to me, and I thought of it as Marvel attempting to reduce the Beyonder's power level so that he or other beings of his rank would fit into future story lines. If Galactus were more powerful than Cube beings, how is it that Franklin Richards becomes his master in the future?

Originally posted by Stoic
Yeah Kubik's spiel made no sense whatsoever to me, and I thought of it as Marvel attempting to reduce the Beyonder's power level so that he or other beings of his rank would fit into future story lines. If Galactus were more powerful than Cube beings, how is it that Franklin Richards becomes his master in the future?

We just saw Surfer remake then destroy Galactus using Shaper's power. Cube Beings are no joke.

Originally posted by zopzop
Forget about Franklin.

We just saw Surfer remake then destroy Galactus using Shaper's power. Cube Beings are no joke.

Well Galactus is just an extended version of the Surfer with stamina issues. I've only ever seen him as a super scientist with monstrous matter manip abilities, TP, and energy manip at a high cosmic level. I rate him above Sky Father by a very slight margin. Too bad RK Thor did not stick around for very long, because I saw him above Galactus' level. His omniscience seemed to placed him in or around Chaos and Order's level. The Celestial's are a bit different though, because there are ones that have been said to be above Galactus. Then again Galactus' power level is variable. Perhaps Kubik spoke of Celestials of a higher order than the fodder that are regularly seen in comics?

Originally posted by Stoic
Yeah Kubik's spiel made no sense whatsoever to me, and I thought of it as Marvel attempting to reduce the Beyonder's power level so that he or other beings of his rank would fit into future story lines. If Galactus were more powerful than Cube beings, how is it that Franklin Richards becomes his master in the future?

Dont get your logic here. FR could just be stronger than a Cube. MoD is a mutant and he is stronger than Eternity itself. Omega mutants can be that strong.

And FR never become his master. He become his friend.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Dont get your logic here. FR could just be stronger than a Cube. MoD is a mutant and he is stronger than Eternity itself. Omega mutants can be that strong.

And FR never become his master. He become his friend.

Well, you're absolutely right. I was compering Franklin to Cube beings. I don't think that he is a match for the original Beyonder though, but I could be wrong... I mean after all the Molecule Man turned a lot of heads when he showed power enough to go head to head with the Beyonder, so I guess anything is possible. Thanks for the correction on the relationship between Franklin and Galactus. However, in his adult form, Franklin was more powerful than Galactus correct?

Originally posted by Stoic
Well Galactus is just an extended version of the Surfer with stamina issues. I've only ever seen him as a super scientist with monstrous matter manip abilities, TP, and energy manip at a high cosmic level. I rate him above Sky Father by a very slight margin.

He outlasted 12+ Celestials and Tenebrous and Aegis. Odin would haven't have lasted 10 seconds against the Cancerverse's Galactus Engine :

Or how about Galactus vs the 4 Rogue Celestials? Galactus more than held his own till they merged. Odin would have been torn apart by ONE of them, let alone 4.

Originally posted by zopzop
This is absolutely not true. Galactus 'stamina issues' are highly exaggerated.

He outlasted 12+ Celestials and Tenebrous and Aegis. Odin would haven't have lasted 10 seconds against the Cancerverse's Galactus Engine :

Or how about Galactus vs the 4 Rogue Celestials? Galactus more than held his own till they merged. Odin would have been torn apart by ONE of them, let alone 4.

What about when Old King Thor fought Galactus? It was like watching a Thing vs Namor battle. They appeared to be quite close in that fight. Galactus does have stamina issues. Maybe not akin to a tire with a dime sized hole in it, but he does leak power at a higher rate than an immortal. Despite the few times that he has looked very good in battle, he is always complaining about his next meal. We can't just ignore that fact.

The four rogue Celestial's could have been on the weaker scale individually when compared to more powerful ones. Aegis got her skull compromised by an unknown Cancerverse monster, so we really have no idea how powerful she and Tenebrous actually were. We do know that they could not one shot the Surfer, while Odin casually slapped his lights out. I'm just saying that what may appear to be really powerful for one character may be equally so for another. I can not see Aegis or Tenebrous defeating Odin. They gave me the impression of being on the Stranger's level, which is powerful, but not as powerful as Odin IMO.

Originally posted by Stoic
What about when Old King Thor fought Galactus? It was like watching a Thing vs Namor battle. They appeared to be quite close in that fight.

Galactus does have stamina issues. Maybe not akin to a tire with a dime sized hole in it, but he does leak power at a higher rate than an immortal. Despite the few times that he has looked very good in battle, he is always complaining about his next meal. We can't just ignore that fact.

The four rogue Celestial's could have been on the weaker scale individually when compared to more powerful ones. Aegis got her skull compromised by an unknown Cancerverse monster, so we really have no idea how powerful she and Tenebrous actually were. We do know that they could not one shot the Surfer, while Odin casually slapped his lights out. I'm just saying that what may appear to be really powerful for one character may be equally so for another. I can not see Aegis or Tenebrous defeating Odin. They gave me the impression of being on the Stranger's level, which is powerful, but not as powerful as Odin IMO.

As I understand the surfer comic, The Surfer has been given access to the "unrestricted" version of the power that Shaper of Worlds possesses. So basically Surfer is flying around with a untamed CCU, which as shown throughout their story, can vary tremendously in power.

Anyway that is my take on it.

^ From what I gathered, the Shaper is very powerful, it just lacks the imagination and insight to recreate things on the scale that someone like the Surfer could if he possessed that amount of power. He's essentially hampered by CIS. This makes sense because the Savage Hulk gave him fits way back in the day.

Stoic, in my opinion Franklin was a bit stronger than Galactus. But not that strong, more like "=>".

Some people put him much above Galactus because the said "Herald"

But:

3 Celestials > Franklin.
Franklin + Galactus > 3 Celestials.

Also, Franklin needed all the energy of the kid version "ressurect" Galactus. He could not do that by himself. Both, Franklin and Galactus, showed that they can beat a Celestial in 1v1. And both lose against 3 at same time.

CB

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Remember back to that famous, ancient, quote by Kubik when he said the Celestials were several orders of magnitude greater than himself...

My question is does that still apply today?

We have seen time and time again feats by Cube Beings that take a big nasty crap all over the feats of Celestials and almost any other cosmic being in comics...

We've seen Kubik and the Shaper of Worlds reality Warp an entire universe without much effort...

We've seen the Maker (who is perhaps the weakest Cube Being we've seen) one shot KO Thanos when Galactus, Omega, and Odin failed to do so...

Post Retcon Beyonders power remade all of reality on an instant...

So, which has more merit; the more recent raw feats of power demonstrated by Cube Beings or on panel words that are more than 20 years old?

I ask this because based on feats/on panel displays of power, Cube Beings appear to be the ones that are several orders of magnitude greater than Celestials...not the other way around.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Magus had like 20 CCUs and was still less powerful than an incomplete IG

Magus with 5 CCUs was able to :
1) Shield his presence from all the powers and principalities in the multiverse, this included the LT (this he said was using up the greatest portion of the CCUs power)
2) Imprison Eternity AND Infinity
3) Create a duplicate universe and slowly merge it with 616
4) Stop the UN from functioning

Eternity and Infinity pwned Magus with the incomplete IG yet were imprisoned by the Magus with 5 CCUs.

I remembered that wrong and confused it with the Goddess' arc, however the whole IG was needed to stop Magus in the eyes of the Living tribunal

great thread

New topic*

Phoenix Force users. At the height of it's power, I can see the PF being well above a Celestial, or multitudes of them. Not sure how it would compare to a Cube Being? Some CB's are more powerful than others it appears. Sentry was able to momentarily restrain one, which was a huge feat for him. I'm not sure if he'd have been able to do more than die against a PF host though?