Cube Beings vs Celestials (or just about any other cosmic)....

Originally posted by Stoic
New topic*

Phoenix Force users. At the height of it's power, I can see the PF being well above a Celestial, or multitudes of them. Not sure how it would compare to a Cube Being? Some CB's are more powerful than others it appears. Sentry was able to momentarily restrain one, which was a huge feat for him. I'm not sure if he'd have been able to do more than die against a PF host though?

I just remembered something. I recall a scan posted here a few months back where the Badoon used a Cosmic Cube to enslave the entire Celestial Race. I don't remember if this was an alternate reality or possible future but damn was it impressive.

Originally posted by zopzop
Maybe it's a 'low' showing for the Cube?

I just remembered something. I recall a scan posted here a few months back where the Badoon used a Cosmic Cube to enslave the entire Celestial Race. I don't remember if this was an alternate reality or possible future but damn was it impressive.

You know what impression I often get of the Cube beings? I think that they can tap from a very large well of power, and are generally seen as Cosmic Genie's of a sort, but they lack the imaginative scope to be supreme beings. In a sense, they are slaves to their own power. Take the Shaper of World's for example; he does have the power to shape universes out of nothingness, but he lacks the will or maybe the imagination to do so. Most Cube beings appear to be slaves, or simply items of power. Your scan shows the well of power that they can tap from, but not what they can do on their own. It kind of shows you the difference between them, and Mxy. Mxy does not need another character to show him the way, he just does what he does.

Also. what do you think of the power level of a Phoenix Force host in comparison to a Celestial? I mean at full power, and not Rachel Grey levels of power.

Originally posted by zopzop

Magus with 5 CCUs was able to :
1) Shield his presence from all the powers and principalities in the multiverse, this included the LT (this he said was using up the greatest portion of the CCUs power)
2) Imprison Eternity AND Infinity
3) Create a duplicate universe and slowly merge it with 616
4) Stop the UN from functioning

Originally posted by zopzop

Eternity and Infinity pwned Magus with the incomplete IG
yet were imprisoned by the Magus with 5 CCUs.

Remember friend, Warlock battled Magus across countless universeS for that incomplete IG,
then, Warlock had to wait for the precise moment to catch Magus off-guard so Eternity/Infinity could strike.

You know, there's an interpretation that tells us Eternity/Infinity and Magus blew up the Multiverse in that encounter.

The Moon Knight tie-ins to Infinity War.

Also, Dr Strange bumped into residual residue across "time" leading to the 31st century from the Infinity War.
Strange was leaving Universe-691 of the Guardians of the Galaxy.

Originally posted by Stoic

Sentry was able to momentarily restrain one

That Cube wasn't trying to hurt anyone there, and Sentry never restrained it.

Sentry held that harmless CCU for a moment from getting away,
the second the CCU exerted some force to leave it blew Sentry across the room.

Also, you know why the CCU got away, cause it wanted to find protection,
cause it was vulnerable due to its instability,
and it was no where near as powerful as a functioning CCU:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12644408_Sentry_CCU1.jpg]

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It went to a CPU, and controlled the CPU to send a robot after the heroes, 😂
it actually floored Sentry with eye beams.

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12644409_Sentry_CCU2.jpg]

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But the CCU wasn't really trying to hurt any of them.

They destroyed the CCU with an energy nullifier.

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12644410_Sentry_CCU3.jpg]

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At the end, Sentry, Sue and Reed speculate on what the CCu really wanted:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12644411_Sentry_CCU4.jpg]

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See, no big deal.

That CCU feat was taken out of context cause that's what happens
when a single cropped scan is used to define a story.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Magus imprisoned Eternity solely good friend. All else is yes.

Originally posted by Stoic
^ From what I gathered, the Shaper is very powerful, it just lacks the imagination and insight to recreate things on the scale that someone like the Surfer could if he possessed that amount of power. He's essentially hampered by CIS. This makes sense because the Savage Hulk gave him fits way back in the day.

So Shaper of the world is in essence just like every other cube being, that imposes limits on themselves the longer they exist. Just like Mephisto once stated. Hence why I said, Surfer has access to a "unrestricted" CCU, and the CCU can, as mentioned above, vary tremendously in power.

In regards to the thread, I believe that the Cube Beings, like Kubik, Kosmos and Shaper of the World are still beneath the Abstracts, while the Cosmic Containment units, are above. But then again from my perspective this has always been the case, expect for a few incidents open to interpretation.

srug

Originally posted by zopzop

It was both no?

I remember this being confirmed in an issue of Quasar when he tries to contact Infinity and he couldn't.
This was why. She was imprisoned along with Eternity.

Originally posted by Stoic
Also. what do you think of the power level of a Phoenix Force host in comparison to a Celestial? I mean at full power, and not Rachel Grey levels of power.

It's supposed to be at least universal but in 616 reality it's never done anything at that level. It's best showings are in alternate realities where it's actually outputted enough power to destroy a universe or multiple galaxies.

Phoenix Force is a very iffy one because of the inconsistency, and the fact that it's never really fit into the 'main' cosmic hierarchy of Marvel. See how whenever anyone shows the hierarchy in a comic they almost never include the Phoenix Force (story wise probably because it's so heavily tied into the X-men) so it's hard to judge. At the very least we know it's below the Beyonders (based on what Doom did to Cyclops) but then again right now everyone is.

As for Cube beings vs Celestials, I don't think Kubik's statement can be taken at face value anymore. It was made back in the days when the Celestials were always talked about as being beyond almost everyone, whereas actual showings and other stuff since then have made it clear that that is not the case.

And any recent showing of cosmic cube or cube being power puts them very clearly beyond the Celestials- hell even when Kubik said that the Beyonder had turned himself into a universe, which is more than basically any Celestial (bar Scathan) has ever really done on panel.

Add to the fact a cosmic cube literally enslaved every Celestial in that Guardians future, Molecule Man doing his multiversal battles and recently being revealed to destroy an entire universe by releasing his powers (albeit he is more powerful than the cube beings but you know) and the general way they are portrayed as an ultimate weapon, I would now consider cube beings to be above the Celestials in a normal situation.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Stoic, in my opinion Franklin was a bit stronger than Galactus. But not that strong, more like "=>".

Some people put him much above Galactus because the said "Herald"

But:

3 Celestials > Franklin.
Franklin + Galactus > 3 Celestials.

Also, Franklin needed all the energy of the kid version "ressurect" Galactus. He could not do that by himself. Both, Franklin and Galactus, showed that they can beat a Celestial in 1v1. And both lose against 3 at same time.

Actually, Galactus seemed to be more more than holding his own against 4 of those Celestials until they went Voltron on him, while Franklin obviously needed Galactus' help against 3 of them and still had to resort to kamikaze mode. Of course, after eating 4 planets Galactus was more powerful that he normally is, so it seems to me that they're normally equals with Galactus having the potential to be more powerful.

Originally posted by zopzop

Magus with 5 CCUs was able to :

4) Stop the UN from functioning

When did that happen?

Originally posted by zopzop

I just remembered something. I recall a scan posted here a few months back where the Badoon used a Cosmic Cube to enslave the entire Celestial Race. I don't remember if this was an alternate reality or possible future but damn was it impressive.

It was a future reality.

Originally posted by operator616
When did that happen?

Originally posted by zopzop
Maybe it's a 'low' showing for the Cube?

I just remembered something. I recall a scan posted here a few months back where the Badoon used a Cosmic Cube to enslave the entire Celestial Race. I don't remember if this was an alternate reality or possible future but damn was it impressive.

Omg!!

See, displays of power like that cement my position that Kubiks ancient words are no longer applicable...

That feat of imprisoning the Celestial Race is so good that I am betting that nothing less than the Classic, Full, Infinity Gauntlet being weilded by Thanos could replicate that feat...

Originally posted by zopzop
This isn't entirely accurate.

Magus with 5 CCUs was able to :
1) Shield his presence from all the powers and principalities in the multiverse, this included the LT (this he said was using up the greatest portion of the CCUs power)
2) Imprison Eternity AND Infinity
3) Create a duplicate universe and slowly merge it with 616
4) Stop the UN from functioning

Eternity and Infinity pwned Magus with the incomplete IG yet were imprisoned by the Magus with 5 CCUs.

👆

Originally posted by Sin I AM
great thread

Thanks and hello! 🙂

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Phoenix Force is a very iffy one because of the inconsistency, and the fact that it's never really fit into the 'main' cosmic hierarchy of Marvel. See how whenever anyone shows the hierarchy in a comic they almost never include the Phoenix Force (story wise probably because it's so heavily tied into the X-men) so it's hard to judge. At the very least we know it's below the Beyonders (based on what Doom did to Cyclops) but then again right now everyone is.

As for Cube beings vs Celestials, I don't think Kubik's statement can be taken at face value anymore. It was made back in the days when the Celestials were always talked about as being beyond almost everyone, whereas actual showings and other stuff since then have made it clear that that is not the case.

And any recent showing of cosmic cube or cube being power puts them very clearly beyond the Celestials- hell even when Kubik said that the Beyonder had turned himself into a universe, which is more than basically any Celestial (bar Scathan) has ever really done on panel.

Add to the fact a cosmic cube literally enslaved every Celestial in that Guardians future, Molecule Man doing his multiversal battles and recently being revealed to destroy an entire universe by releasing his powers (albeit he is more powerful than the cube beings but you know) and the general way they are portrayed as an ultimate weapon, I would now consider cube beings to be above the Celestials in a normal situation.

Well said... 👆

Originally posted by Stoic
New topic*

Phoenix Force users. At the height of it's power, I can see the PF being well above a Celestial, or multitudes of them. Not sure how it would compare to a Cube Being? Some CB's are more powerful than others it appears. Sentry was able to momentarily restrain one, which was a huge feat for him. I'm not sure if he'd have been able to do more than die against a PF host though?

Sentry hold a Cosmic Cube a few moments in his early carrier and at this point he didn't know that he could warp the reality.

Sentry, during Dark Avengers, blocked & destroyed the most powerful Cosmic Cube-being AKA Molecule Man, whom was at full power as he had no beliefs on his abilities.

That pretty summarize the potential of the guy.

cube beings cant beat celestials,or higher abstracts.