Loki vs the Jedi Order

Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
true enough but i want to know if his strength can cause him to move if held in the air let alone throw knives (he seems to only have the one in his armour) and his staff

He seemed to have quite a lot of knives when he was fighting the Frost Giants. And levitating something doesn't mean immobilizing it. I don't recall any feat of the Jedi's where they actually immobilize someone with the force.

Actually, I can't recall them using the force for anything other than pushing (and the occassional lightning) while in combat.

Originally posted by FrothByte
He seemed to have quite a lot of knives when he was fighting the Frost Giants. And levitating something doesn't mean immobilizing it. I don't recall any feat of the Jedi's where they actually immobilize someone with the force.

Actually, I can't recall them using the force for anything other than pushing (and the occassional lightning) while in combat.

The Force is used for enhanced speed and strength/durability as well. Faster than Loki, but not as strong. But they should be able to take some hits from him.

And people have been immobilized. Dooku froze Kenobi in the air before launching him across that hangar bay.

Originally posted by KingD19
The Force is used for enhanced speed and strength/durability as well. Faster than Loki, but not as strong. But they should be able to take some hits from him.

And people have been immobilized. Dooku froze Kenobi in the air before launching him across that hangar bay.

Not that much faster though. After all, Jango Fett was able to keep up with Kenobi.
And IIRC, when Dooku froze Kenobi in the air Kenobi was still able to move his arms and legs. But maybe I'm remembering it wrong?

if he has the knives then he might break out of the TK hold but i don't see a killing shot as the TK would switch to the knives or a lightsaber block.

if loki has his staff then it may be possible to hold of any range attacks but i am assuming the staff is more durable then asgardian skin so it might go toe to toe with a saber for a while

I could see him beating some of them one-on-one, but I definitely can't see him taking on the Vader/Palpatine combo and winning. If we include Clone Wars feats, Palpatine alone would be too much for him IMO (he can casually take on and toy with 2 other powerful Sith at the same time, and ragdoll them at his leisure). Yoda is another one who has in fact shown, in the Clone Wars, that he can totally immobilize someone via the force (he does it to Ventris IIRC).

Some of the more powerful Force Users can even hold him with Force Tk and react to his attacks at the same time. Same instance when Dooku tossed Kenobi, he held him immobile for a few seconds and back kicked Anakin unconscious before sending Kenobi flying.

Yeah but everytime someone has used the force to hold someone they didn't seem capable of holding them for long?

true time is a factor here.

althou i don't think the asgardian is quite aware of what jedi can do so either he will be causous or just underestimate. i still see jedi wining here, its not a stomp but its still a win

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I could see him beating some of them one-on-one, but I definitely can't see him taking on the Vader/Palpatine combo and winning. If we include Clone Wars feats, Palpatine alone would be too much for him IMO (he can casually take on and toy with 2 other powerful Sith at the same time, and ragdoll them at his leisure). Yoda is another one who has in fact shown, in the Clone Wars, that he can totally immobilize someone via the force (he does it to Ventris IIRC).

Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
true time is a factor here.

althou i don't think the asgardian is quite aware of what jedi can do so either he will be causous or just underestimate. i still see jedi wining here, its not a stomp but its still a win

To be fair, I don't think the Jedi's have ever fought someone like an Asgardian before, especially not someone who can do illusions like Loki. Loki has also demonstrated TK (while in prison). Not sure how applicable it is in combat.

at the same time jedi do have some mentality sensing power, not much but enough to tell illusions from real form

Don't know about that. When have they ever shown the ability to sense illusions?

Palpatine was right under their noses the whole time and they weren't able to detect his true form.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Don't know about that. When have they ever shown the ability to sense illusions?

Palpatine was right under their noses the whole time and they weren't able to detect his true form.

Well, it again seems to be the case that the higher force users should have an easier time here. Again, Palpatine specifically has shown that he can force choke multiple opponents without being able to even see them (he force chokes 2 guards without even being in the same room as them at one stage), which indicates very clearly that he doesn't need to rely on visibility to target someone. So I would say that some of them would be able to tell whether they are just facing a substance-less hologram or a flesh and blood being.

Maybe. Of course this is assuming that Loki's magical illusions share similar attributes to holograms.

Anyway, I don't think force choking or pushing or anything else with the force will be the deciding factor here. They can push Loki around a bit but it isn't strong enough to take him out.

As I said before, it will still boil down to whether the lightsabers can cut Loki.

Originally posted by KingD19
The Force is used for enhanced speed and strength/durability as well. Faster than Loki, but not as strong. But they should be able to take some hits from him.

And people have been immobilized. Dooku froze Kenobi in the air before launching him across that hangar bay.

Yoda immoblized Ventress in TCW cartoon as well.

Sceptre could possibly block lightsabers right?

loki doesnt take anyone higher then yoda or sidious/vader

Originally posted by FrothByte
Maybe. Of course this is assuming that Loki's magical illusions share similar attributes to holograms.

Anyway, I don't think force choking or pushing or anything else with the force will be the deciding factor here. They can push Loki around a bit but it isn't strong enough to take him out.

As I said before, it will still boil down to whether the lightsabers can cut Loki.

Well, they seem to affect most of the physical senses, though sometimes touching them seems to undo them, and then sometimes it doesn't. But there is no evidence that they can fool a sense that has no dependence on regular physical stimulus to work. We know Palpatine can sense people and use the force on them without seeing them, or even being in the same room as them. So the burden of proof would be on you to show that Loki's illusions can counter this if you disagree, considering we know it works normally.

I disagree though. While it might not be a factor that KOs or kills Loki, it most definitely will play a big part. Being constantly tossed around and potentially even rendered immobile would make it extremely hard for Loki to mount any kind of real offense.

I also never know why people say that. There was a Loki vs Sidious thread ages ago where it was pointed out that nothing is stopping the force user from using Loki's own spear against him, should they realise that their lightsabers aren't doing any damage. We've seen that even a robot like Ultron can use its powers (he mind-controlled doctor whatserface with it), but that isn't even needed, considering they can just stab him with the pointy end.

good point

hehe pun

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, they seem to affect most of the physical senses, though sometimes touching them seems to undo them, and then sometimes it doesn't. But there is no evidence that they can fool a sense that has no dependence on regular physical stimulus to work. We know Palpatine can sense people and use the force on them without seeing them, or even being in the same room as them. So the burden of proof would be on you to show that Loki's illusions can counter this if you disagree, considering we know it works normally.

I disagree though. While it might not be a factor that KOs or kills Loki, it most definitely will play a big part. Being constantly tossed around and potentially even rendered immobile would make it extremely hard for Loki to mount any kind of real offense.

I also never know why people say that. There was a Loki vs Sidious thread ages ago where it was pointed out that nothing is stopping the force user from using Loki's own spear against him, should they realise that their lightsabers aren't doing any damage. We've seen that even a robot like Ultron can use its powers (he mind-controlled doctor whatserface with it), but that isn't even needed, considering they can just stab him with the pointy end.

For a force user to use Loki's scepter against him, they'd have to force-push/pull with a force greater than Loki's strength. And we've seen asgardians bend steel and easily push aside cars. Only Yoda has ever shown that kind of strength in the middle of a fight. And yet if Jedi's can do that as easily as you make it seem, why then do they not do it more often?

Same with just pushing Loki around. A full force kick from Captain America was unable to make Loki take a step back... and we all know how strong Cap can kick. The Jedi's won't be able to just push on Loki as you're describing. They might stagger him a bit but that's it. The only thing that can possibly work is for them to lift him straight up... and then we boil down to the fact that the Jedi's don't use this move that often. Why?