Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, that's cause they are, they are literally saving lives, and changing the world and have been for the last 8 years. Where have you been?http://ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2014/10/28/presentation-mobile-is-eating-the-world
http://qz.com/451844/africas-smartphone-market-is-on-the-rise-as-affordable-handsets-spur-growth/
http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/04/15/cell-phones-in-africa-communication-lifeline/
Originally posted by Bardock42
Going away from Africa (although the stark difference between no connectivity at all and now some because of smartphones is stark there) there have been multiple stories about how Syrian refugees have been using smartphones to make their way through Europe and to make sure they survive:http://qz.com/500062/the-most-crucial-item-that-migrants-and-refugees-carry-is-a-smartphone/
Originally posted by Bardock42That is a pretty great variety of sources. I didn't discredit the use of the internet, or of social media, though. You can say "Where have you been!?" and stuff like that, say I'm "wrong" (I never said I was right, btw – just asking questions), etc., but I was originally talking about it from an everyday perspective in a modern first world country. It's great that smartphones are saving lives – they're fulfilling a real purpose there.
Then there's the stories about protesters using smartphones and social networks like twitter and firechat to coordinate and work on real change:http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/16/tech/mobile/tomorrow-transformed-firechat/
http://www.mobileindustryreview.com/2015/01/smartphones-and-social-media-revolution.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/29/arab-spring-captured-on-cameraphones
---
Or take the US, where much more police violence is captured on the ubiquitous smartphone cameras than ever before.
http://www.cjr.org/analysis/smartphone_video_changes_coverage.php
I mean, you really couldn't be more wrong about this.
But we're white males, one of us is upper/middle class, and the other is at minimum 'not poor' – so really, in our world, they are pretty much just a toy. I doubt you'll be starting any civil unrest any time soon.
But I am glad you've given me a new perspective on a device (albeit one that I use) that perhaps I felt some vague contempt for before. It's interesting looking at things from different perspectives, I guess. I still think that buying every new iPhone as it comes out is still a symptom of serious dedication to the prevalent consumer society though, regardless of reasons given for the benefit of the non-brand-specific product in the world at large. I don't necessarily disagree with that stance, either; I'd probably be the same if I was given the luck to have rich parents and the like, but sadly we aren't all so fortunate. Simply 'upgrading' can actually require a deal of hard work and money saving for some people, and for a number of people it really isn't essential.
I hope you realise I'm not coming at this from any specific idealogical point of view, and I'm not trying to beat you in a debate or any of that shit (it's pointless; nobody in the GDF ever could concede to being slightly wrong, right?); I'm genuinely appreciative of the time you took in those finding sources.
One last thing:
Originally posted by Bardock42I'm just interested to know: what I was wrong about here? I don't think I actually raised any particular dissenting argument at any point, other than maybe my opinion that Surtur didn't really have much reason to upgrade to a smartphone, so I find your choice of words rather bizarre. It's not like I said "Smartphones are shit, nobody in the world should ever use one and they have literally no purpose" or anything. I just find that they are used somewhat frivolously to a lot of people, and that owning and buying them compulsively is literally an end, not a means to some righteous end.
I mean, you really couldn't be more wrong about this.
But, you know, gubba nub nub doo rah kah and all that.
Originally posted by Scribble
That is a pretty great variety of sources. I didn't discredit the use of the internet, or of social media, though. You can say "Where have you been!?" and stuff like that, say I'm "wrong" (I never said I was right, btw – just asking questions), etc., but I was originally talking about it from an everyday perspective in a modern first world country. It's great that smartphones are saving lives – they're fulfilling a real purpose there.But we're white males, one of us is upper/middle class, and the other is at minimum 'not poor' – so really, in our world, they are pretty much just a toy. I doubt you'll be starting any civil unrest any time soon.
But I am glad you've given me a new perspective on a device (albeit one that I use) that perhaps I felt some vague contempt for before. It's interesting looking at things from different perspectives, I guess. I still think that buying every new iPhone as it comes out is still a symptom of serious dedication to the prevalent consumer society though, regardless of reasons given for the benefit of the non-brand-specific product in the world at large. I don't necessarily disagree with that stance, either; I'd probably be the same if I was given the luck to have rich parents and the like, but sadly we aren't all so fortunate. Simply 'upgrading' can actually require a deal of hard work and money saving for some people, and for a number of people it really isn't essential.
I hope you realise I'm not coming at this from any specific idealogical point of view, and I'm not trying to beat you in a debate or any of that shit (it's pointless; nobody in the GDF ever could concede to being slightly wrong, right?); I'm genuinely appreciative of the time you took in those finding sources.
Originally posted by Scribble
One last thing:
I'm just interested to know: what I was wrong about here? I don't think I actually raised any particular dissenting argument at any point, other than maybe my opinion that Surtur didn't really have much reason to upgrade to a smartphone, so I find your choice of words rather bizarre. It's not like I said "Smartphones are shit, nobody in the world should ever use one and they have literally no purpose" or anything. I just find that they are used somewhat frivolously to a lot of people, and that owning and buying them compulsively is literally an end, not a means to some righteous end.But, you know, gubba nub nub doo rah kah and all that.
You said smartphones are "just toys for the privileged", which, like I just showed, is possibly one of the most wrong and uninformed things to say. Already there's something like 2.5 billion people using smartphones, very many of them in impoverished areas, and the trend is for this to vastly increase in the next years.
There's few things one could say this about and be more wrong, perhaps "air is just for the privileged".
I am glad you got a new perspective though. I may have reacted particularly strongly, because I found it annoying to dismiss one of the major changes in the world, one that most significantly impacts poor people, in such a manner.
Regarding the iPhone, sure that is a more high end product (although it is very popular in the strongly developing Chinese middle class as well), and getting it every year may be a sign of consumerism, although, in my case, I would add that I develop software for iOS and having the new devices for testing is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, I also have an Android phone for that reason.
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Any word on a new iPad?
There's no news on an iPad Air 3. Macworld has a similar post about it though: http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/ipad/new-ipad-air-3-release-date-images-features-wish-list-specs-ipad-7-3481268/
I think 3D Touch and perhaps Pencil support are likely improvements.
As for the iPad Pro, it's still slated for November.
This week there has been some news that Apple has let artists at Pixar try it out and they have been positive (now, Pixar has had a close relationship with Apple, ever since Steve Jobs came back to Apple, so you may take it as bias)
Originally posted by Bardock42
There's no news on an iPad Air 3. Macworld has a similar post about it though: http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/ipad/new-ipad-air-3-release-date-images-features-wish-list-specs-ipad-7-3481268/I think 3D Touch and perhaps Pencil support are likely improvements.
As for the iPad Pro, it's still slated for November.
This week there has been some news that Apple has let artists at Pixar try it out and they have been positive (now, Pixar has had a close relationship with Apple, ever since Steve Jobs came back to Apple, so you may take it as bias)
I see. I hope the iPad Air 3 gets at least a 12MP camera.
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I see. I hope the iPad Air 3 gets at least a 12MP camera.
That's interesting. Do you have an iPad and if so do you use the camera a lot?
I think I've only used the camera a handful of times on my iPads, it's good to have, but I don't use it for taking photos really. I sometimes use it to scan a document quickly.
By the way, I got the iPhone 6S Plus, 64GB.
And I enjoy the crap out of it.
It is my favorite mobile phone, by far. Almost went with the Note 5.
But Apple improved the camera enough that I wanted the iPhone this time.
Also, the iOS update before this last one (it was an 8.xx) fixed a major asynchronous issue with iMessage. That was my biggest complaint. Sending a text to someone and them not getting it for 4 hours is simply stupid. But Apple fixed that. Data is data...not sure why those messages were getting hung up but they were. But after the update, they went through to those that had the updated software.
Anyway, love this phone. Playing Bastion on it. I have already taken many new photos.
Originally posted by Bardock42
That's interesting. Do you have an iPad and if so do you use the camera a lot?I think I've only used the camera a handful of times on my iPads, it's good to have, but I don't use it for taking photos really. I sometimes use it to scan a document quickly.
My parents have recently bought an iPad Air 2 and they use the camera quite frequently. A 8MP camera just seems to be awfully mediocre for such an otherwise amazing piece of technology.
Originally posted by dadudemon
By the way, I got the iPhone 6S Plus, 64GB.And I enjoy the crap out of it.
It is my favorite mobile phone, by far. Almost went with the Note 5.
But Apple improved the camera enough that I wanted the iPhone this time.
Also, the iOS update before this last one (it was an 8.xx) fixed a major asynchronous issue with iMessage. That was my biggest complaint. Sending a text to someone and them not getting it for 4 hours is simply stupid. But Apple fixed that. Data is data...not sure why those messages were getting hung up but they were. But after the update, they went through to those that had the updated software.
Anyway, love this phone. Playing Bastion on it. I have already taken many new photos.
Oh that's awesome, glad you enjoy it. How do you like the new Live Photos?
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
My parents have recently bought an iPad Air 2 and they use the camera quite frequently. A 8MP camera just seems to be awfully mediocre for such an otherwise amazing piece of technology.
Hmm, well a better camera would be great, although regarding megapixel size I don't think it's that important at the considerably small size of sensors in mobile devices. The iPad still takes very good photos, probably the best photos on any tablet at least. I think it's likely though that they will push down the 12 Megapixel camera from the iPhone 6S to the next iPads, so you might be in luck.
Originally posted by Bardock42Well, yeah, talking from the perspective I was coming from, they kind of are – to me – or at least in the way that people with more money treat them. I could say the same about designer clothes – doesn't mean I'm making a big political statement about all clothes and saying that they're a boon to the well-off and useless junk to the rest. You don't have to look at my posts from such an extreme perspective, usually I'm just looking for answers, not challenging anyone to a debate (being "right", as I've said, really isn't a priority to me in life). But yeah, that is fair enough for you as a software designer. You do have to keep on the ball with it all because your job literally depends on it. So I did kind of overlook that when addressing your initial points; that was misguided of me.
You said smartphones are "just toys for the privileged", which, like I just showed, is possibly one of the most wrong and uninformed things to say. Already there's something like 2.5 billion people using smartphones, very many of them in impoverished areas, and the trend is for this to vastly increase in the next years.There's few things one could say this about and be more wrong, perhaps "air is just for the privileged".
I am glad you got a new perspective though. I may have reacted particularly strongly, because I found it annoying to dismiss one of the major changes in the world, one that most significantly impacts poor people, in such a manner.
Regarding the iPhone, sure that is a more high end product (although it is very popular in the strongly developing Chinese middle class as well), and getting it every year may be a sign of consumerism, although, in my case, I would add that I develop software for iOS and having the new devices for testing is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, I also have an Android phone for that reason.
My opinions on technology are not fully formed yet. In all honesty, ever since I was about 16 I've been getting increasingly mistrustful of all of these devices, and seeing their effect on the world at large has only made me more ambivalent. It's amazing how their accessibility has brought a lot of the world together, but in a smaller, more personal context, I often see them limiting human interaction. I can't count the amount of times I've been in a room with people, people who are all friends, but who just sit there stuck into their phones instead of actually speaking. I even do it myself. You said that the phrase "smartphones are just toys for the privileged" is "possibly one of the most wrong and uninformed things to say" (and I can think of way more wrong and uninformed things to say, see below*), and while I concede that the statement I made was certainly broad, you have to be completely blind to say that they have had literally no negative impacts on people whatsoever. But still, at least I now have some evidence on the other side of the table to work with.
Comparing smartphones to air is really silly in any situation, though, haha. But again, thanks for balancing the board a bit. And also thanks for treating me less like shit than usual. Appreciate it. (No, really!)
(* "Stalin cured cancer in 1853", "Water is actually just green, frozen fire", "The last president of the United States was Kaiser Wilhelm", "I am not a person, I am an alien who just looks like a human", "Numbers are just a big lie, they aren't real and the government made them up to control us", "Smartphones literally don't exist", etc. See how saying it's literally one of the most wrong and uninformed things to say ever was kind of an exaggeration for the sake of rhetoric? Yeah. You do that sometimes; I forgive you.)
I sure hope this post doesn't come across as facetious – I was just trying to keep it light and polite.
Originally posted by Scribble
Well, yeah, talking from the perspective I was coming from, they kind of are – to me – or at least in the way that people with more money treat them. I could say the same about designer clothes – doesn't mean I'm making a big political statement about all clothes and saying that they're a boon to the well-off and useless junk to the rest. You don't have to look at my posts from such an extreme perspective, usually I'm just looking for answers, not challenging anyone to a debate (being "right", as I've said, really isn't a priority to me in life). But yeah, that is fair enough for you as a software designer. You do have to keep on the ball with it all because your job literally depends on it. So I did kind of overlook that when addressing your initial points; that was misguided of me.My opinions on technology are not fully formed yet. In all honesty, ever since I was about 16 I've been getting increasingly mistrustful of all of these devices, and seeing their effect on the world at large has only made me more ambivalent. It's amazing how their accessibility has brought a lot of the world together, but in a smaller, more personal context, I often see them limiting human interaction. I can't count the amount of times I've been in a room with people, people who are all friends, but who just sit there stuck into their phones instead of actually speaking. I even do it myself. You said that the phrase "smartphones are just toys for the privileged" is "possibly one of the most wrong and uninformed things to say" (and I can think of way more wrong and uninformed things to say, see below*), and while I concede that the statement I made was certainly broad, you have to be completely blind to say that they have had literally no negative impacts on people whatsoever. But still, at least I now have some evidence on the other side of the table to work with.
Comparing smartphones to air is really silly in any situation, though, haha. But again, thanks for balancing the board a bit. And also thanks for treating me less like shit than usual. Appreciate it. (No, really!)
(* "Stalin cured cancer in 1853", "Water is actually just green, frozen fire", "The last president of the United States was Kaiser Wilhelm", "I am not a person, I am an alien who just looks like a human", "Numbers are just a big lie, they aren't real and the government made them up to control us", "Smartphones literally don't exist", etc. See how saying it's literally one of the most wrong and uninformed things to say ever was kind of an exaggeration for the sake of rhetoric? Yeah. You do that sometimes; I forgive you.)
I sure hope this post doesn't come across as facetious – I was just trying to keep it light and polite.
You make a lot of points, and I would like to address some others as well, so I will try to order them and address them individually. This is not meant to misrepresent you, so if I should do that, please tell me.
My reaction to the statement smartphones are "just toys for the privileged":
What I did not like about it is that it was such an absolute statement, it is clear now that you mean to limit it to a certain segment of the population, or perhaps western countries, but in the way you made the statement it was really dismissive of the whole phenomenon, which I believe is doing a lot of good. To take your example, it is as if you had said "clothes are just a boon to the well off", while actually meaning designer clothes.
Style of debate, i.e. just looking for answers rather than challenging:
While I believe you do want to look for right answers, you do insert parts into your posts that can be viewed (and perhaps misconstrued) as digs, rather than honest debate (I do as well, I'm just saying).
For example:
"Flashy shit for those that can afford it."
"Ultimately though, they're just toys for the privileged, aren't they?"
"Praise the corporations for setting the black man free!"
"I doubt you'll be starting any civil unrest any time soon"
"I don't necessarily disagree with that stance, either; I'd probably be the same if I was given the luck to have rich parents and the like, but sadly we aren't all so fortunate."
Certain smartphones being a tool for the privileged:
Certain smartphones appear quite expensive, and there are people that can't afford them. New iPhones and Galaxy phones can run you around 800$, that is also true. However the question is how you view these, for some people it is literally their most important computer and viewing it in that light I don't even think it is that expensive. They are expensive compared to what phones used to be, but phones didn't use to have the capabilities they have now.
And even at the price range, they aren't really just for the privileged. Apple sells about 150 million iPhones per year...Samsung sells another 70 million high end smartphones per year. That means every year 220 million people at least buy one of these "expensive" phones, that's 3.14% of the whole world. There really isn't any other "luxury" item that is bought at these levels, and that's because they provide value, they aren't just status symbols, they really improve what someone can do in their life.
Phones are status symbols as well of course, that is true. Like certain clothes or a flashier car. But I don't think that should discount them, and as far as these status symbols go, they actually aren't that expensive in the grand scheme (getting a BMW will set you back something like 30k minimum, buying only designer clothes can cost many thousands per year as well).
Human interaction being stifled by smartphone usage:
I hear that argument a lot, and it is definitely true to some degree. People will often use their phones in social situations where they wouldn't have previously. On the other hand there are people that are very shy and need clutches to even go out, perhaps these people would previously not even come to events, now they have a safety blanket to hold on to. Additionally, smartphones also enable communication. Previously a teenager may have been stuck at their parents table, doing nothing, or maybe playing on their Game Boy, now they can connect and communicate with their friends all over the world, making meaningful human connections, so again it is a complicated topic with multiple sides to it.
Being wary of technology and potential negative aspects generally:
I am very worried about some of the implications of ubiquitous devices. Particularly privacy is coming under attack significantly, through ad networks like Google, spy agencies like the NSA or just general hackers and scammers who try to take advantages of people. It is worrying, but there are ways to work against it, and with new technologies there's always new ways that people will try to screw you. We should be aware of it, try to fight against it, but I don't think becoming a luddite, smashing the evil spinning frames, is the answer, and I don't think you do either.
My motivation for buying consumer electronics:
When it comes to myself however, some of the arguments you bring do apply. I enjoy getting the newest phones and gadgets, it is a sign of consumerism, and it's my main outlet for it, I don't spend much money other than on electronic hardware. I can justify it somewhat with my job, but the truth is I could be perfectly fine with my year old phone, I just like having the new one. It's superfluous, but then so many of the things we do and enjoy as humans are.
Actual price of phones:
Additonally coming back to the price, I think the tag on the products is misleading (not only because phones are often sold subsidzed.) When looking at the cost of a device just looking at it's price makes buying one every year seem much worse than it is. If we say you buy a 800€ device every year that seems frivolous. But the truth is I buy it for 800€ use it for a year, and then sell it for about 550-600€. That means the cost for the device is at worst 250€ per year for me. That comes out to paying 68 cents per day to own this device. And looking at it that way, considering that I use my iPhone at least 3 hours every day (and likely much more), it seems completely reasonable to me (if you can afford it, which it turns out very many people actually can).
Comparing smartphones to air - Claiming it as the possibly most wrong and uninformed statement:
Yes, that was definitely hyperbole on my part.
Originally posted by Bardock42First, thanks for taking the time to make such a well composed reply.
You make a lot of points, and I would like to address some others as well, so I will try to order them and address them individually. This is not meant to misrepresent you, so if I should do that, please tell me.[b]My reaction to the statement smartphones are "just toys for the privileged":
What I did not like about it is that it was such an absolute statement, it is clear now that you mean to limit it to a certain segment of the population, or perhaps western countries, but in the way you made the statement it was really dismissive of the whole phenomenon, which I believe is doing a lot of good. To take your example, it is as if you had said "clothes are just a boon to the well off", while actually meaning designer clothes.
Style of debate, i.e. just looking for answers rather than challenging:
While I believe you do want to look for right answers, you do insert parts into your posts that can be viewed (and perhaps misconstrued) as digs, rather than honest debate (I do as well, I'm just saying).
For example:
"Flashy shit for those that can afford it.""Ultimately though, they're just toys for the privileged, aren't they?"
"Praise the corporations for setting the black man free!"
"I doubt you'll be starting any civil unrest any time soon"
"I don't necessarily disagree with that stance, either; I'd probably be the same if I was given the luck to have rich parents and the like, but sadly we aren't all so fortunate."
Certain smartphones being a tool for the privileged:
Certain smartphones appear quite expensive, and there are people that can't afford them. New iPhones and Galaxy phones can run you around 800$, that is also true. However the question is how you view these, for some people it is literally their most important computer and viewing it in that light I don't even think it is that expensive. They are expensive compared to what phones used to be, but phones didn't use to have the capabilities they have now.
And even at the price range, they aren't really just for the privileged. Apple sells about 150 million iPhones per year...Samsung sells another 70 million high end smartphones per year. That means every year 220 million people at least buy one of these "expensive" phones, that's 3.14% of the whole world. There really isn't any other "luxury" item that is bought at these levels, and that's because they provide value, they aren't just status symbols, they really improve what someone can do in their life.
Phones are status symbols as well of course, that is true. Like certain clothes or a flashier car. But I don't think that should discount them, and as far as these status symbols go, they actually aren't that expensive in the grand scheme (getting a BMW will set you back something like 30k minimum, buying only designer clothes can cost many thousands per year as well).
Human interaction being stifled by smartphone usage:
I hear that argument a lot, and it is definitely true to some degree. People will often use their phones in social situations where they wouldn't have previously. On the other hand there are people that are very shy and need clutches to even go out, perhaps these people would previously not even come to events, now they have a safety blanket to hold on to. Additionally, smartphones also enable communication. Previously a teenager may have been stuck at their parents table, doing nothing, or maybe playing on their Game Boy, now they can connect and communicate with their friends all over the world, making meaningful human connections, so again it is a complicated topic with multiple sides to it.
Being wary of technology and potential negative aspects generally:
I am very worried about some of the implications of ubiquitous devices. Particularly privacy is coming under attack significantly, through ad networks like Google, spy agencies like the NSA or just general hackers and scammers who try to take advantages of people. It is worrying, but there are ways to work against it, and with new technologies there's always new ways that people will try to screw you. We should be aware of it, try to fight against it, but I don't think becoming a luddite, smashing the evil spinning frames, is the answer, and I don't think you do either.
My motivation for buying consumer electronics:
When it comes to myself however, some of the arguments you bring do apply. I enjoy getting the newest phones and gadgets, it is a sign of consumerism, and it's my main outlet for it, I don't spend much money other than on electronic hardware. I can justify it somewhat with my job, but the truth is I could be perfectly fine with my year old phone, I just like having the new one. It's superfluous, but then so many of the things we do and enjoy as humans are.
Actual price of phones:
Additonally coming back to the price, I think the tag on the products is misleading (not only because phones are often sold subsidzed.) When looking at the cost of a device just looking at it's price makes buying one every year seem much worse than it is. If we say you buy a 800€ device every year that seems frivolous. But the truth is I buy it for 800€ use it for a year, and then sell it for about 550-600€. That means the cost for the device is at worst 250€ per year for me. That comes out to paying 68 cents per day to own this device. And looking at it that way, considering that I use my iPhone at least 3 hours every day (and likely much more), it seems completely reasonable to me (if you can afford it, which it turns out very many people actually can).
Comparing smartphones to air - Claiming it as the possibly most wrong and uninformed statement:
Yes, that was definitely hyperbole on my part. [/B]
Yeah, I definitely concede to coming across as dismissive, even hostile to them as a whole. I was far too general and I did come across as if I was saying they were overall just useless toys. I guess I usually have discussions like this in person, and I think I rely heavily on tone of voice and stuff like that, i.e. I can make it clear when I'm playing devil's advocate, and that doesn't translate well in plain text. I need to remember that more often. I use digs as a way of eliciting responses, I guess – not always the best style to use, but it can have its uses. Here, however, it did me no favours, and kind of painted me as having a specific POV. Like you say, you do it too, and probably come across as being more hostile than you actually are in situations. I blame the Internet!!
I agree that they do have uses to even those who I claimed to see them just as "toys" – you, for example, as a software designer; businessmen and the like who use them extensively to keep up essential communication with their colleagues; even to touring musicians who use apps to record and compose ideas for their music – they have far more uses than I was giving them credit for. And if you can afford a good one, then why wouldn't you? (I think I mentioned earlier that if I could afford a good one, then hell yeah I would. I'd probably even get an iPhone – I adore my MacBook, and there's no denying that Apple know their shit when it comes to marketing.)
I think we mostly agree on the social side of smartphones from what you're saying here to be honest. The bit about some types of people sometimes using them in social situations to ease their anxiety is something I have myself done many times, and although I'm still not sure if it's that good to become reliant on such a tool in social situations, they probably have been a catalyst for some people to socialise more. Any tool as diverse as a small personal computer is bound to have positive and negative uses, so that's no reason for me to fear them or be wary of them. Like I say, I seem to come from a somewhat old fashioned view on technology, which is fairly atypical for someone in their early 20s, and I'm still getting used to them being so ubiquitous, but as you say, trying to go the complete opposite way and denying their use is not the solution to that.
Again, I don't blame or judge you for enjoying consumerist society. With that I was more just trying to get your angle on it all, as for the most part you come across as quite socialist (I could be wrong there, but either way, you're certainly comfortably on the left), so I wanted to see how your relationship with consumerism worked with your other beliefs (and again, I was probably too devil's advocate with it, ended up coming across as attacking your views). Personally, I'd consider myself fairly to the left, but I am also well entrenched into consumer society, just different areas of interest. For example, I already own a few guitars, but that didn't stop me recently from spending money on a new one. It was a Fender – would I have bought it if it wasn't a Fender? I doubt it, because I'm fairly brand-loyal, much in the same way you are to Apple. (Don't know what my specific point is there, I think I was just drawing a parallel for my own benefit.)
I'll leave it there, I think I've resolved a lot of my issues with these newfangled devices. I won't be upgrading my cheap Chinese Cubot smartphone any time soon, but that's just because they aren't as important to my life as they are to other people. Which is fine.
Thanks again for the well-composed reply, Bardock, I don't feel that you did misrepresent my views at any point. And I hope I've approached this discussion with less vitriol than I have before; if my main aim is to learn things and see different points of view on things I don't fully understand yet, then doing that with a tad more humility is probably a good way to go.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh that's awesome, glad you enjoy it. How do you like the new Live Photos?
Very enjoyable, actually. I took a few of them and they turn out looking a bit artistic and I didn't even intend that. I'll post an example (not sure if they can work on the internet).
Also, I'll post some of the pictures I've taken with the phone to show how good the camera is.
I'll just say that in terms of both making smartphone features available to people with less disposable income and in terms of longevity, Android devices > Apple by far. The number of Custom ROMs that devs come up with to get the latest Android OS iterations on older devices makes the far more serviceable in that department and likely always will.
Experience-wise, it's up to what each person prefers. Both types of devices offer interesting features--and both tend to steal the best of those features from one another when they can. Use what you like, just don't act like one is truly better than the other in all aspects, because neither wins hands-down.
I come to this site for informed debate; if I wanted a fanboi show I'd browse The Verge and Engadget.
Originally posted by Ascendancy
I'll just say that in terms of both making smartphone features available to people with less disposable income and in terms of longevity, Android devices > Apple by far. The number of Custom ROMs that devs come up with to get the latest Android OS iterations on older devices makes the far more serviceable in that department and likely always will.
For most normal customers Apple has Android beat in longevity. Of course you are right that Apple does not sell phones for a sub-450€ market. Of course there's a thriving second hand market for Apple devices.
Originally posted by Ascendancy
Experience-wise, it's up to what each person prefers. Both types of devices offer interesting features--and both tend to steal the best of those features from one another when they can. Use what you like, just don't act like one is truly better than the other in all aspects, because neither wins hands-down.
Yes, people have different preferences, and specific phones have different strength and weaknesses, although even which one is strong and which one is weak in certain areas is up for debate, and definitely not a clear cut thing. I'm also wondering where you've seen anyone in this thread claim that one or the other platform wins hands-down? As far as I can tell that didn't happen, and sounds more like a knee-jerk reaction.
Originally posted by Ascendancy
I come to this site for informed debate; if I wanted a fanboi show I'd browse The Verge and Engadget.
lol, if you come to this site for informed debate on consumer technology, you'll probably be disappointed, and not because it is biased.
I just mean in general, not specifically in regards to tech. As far as your longevity claims, I'd like to see actual references to iPhones lasting longer than flagship Androids from the same product cycle. I searched and mostly what I came up with relates to activation length in general, but nothing showing comparison of replacement due to hardware failure.