The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 7: Emperor Malgus vs. Mace Windu

Started by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ6 pages

The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 7: Emperor Malgus vs. Mace Windu

I've, yet again, decided to relaunch The BattleZone, a tournament that pits force users against each other in an effort to decide who is supreme among them. This round features The ultimate Sith Warrior of the TOR Empire, Darth Malgus, and the former Master of the Order, Mace Windu. The previous matchups ended as follows:

Darth Talon vs. Asajj Ventress: Ventress

Darth Traya vs. Obi Wan Kenobi: Darth Traya

Darth Thanaton vs. Darth Wyyrlok: Darth Thanaton

Count Dooku vs. Emperor's Wrath II: Count Dooku

Satele Shan vs. Galen Marek: Galen Marek

Exar Kun vs. Revan Reborn: Revan Reborn

On to the Battle! As a reminder, while votes are important, strength of argument is even moreso.

Emperor Malgus:

Mace Windu:

Location:

Carthage, you bitched to me to make this thread, and now you don't post in it. A disgrace.

I'm at work and can't make an extensive post atm

Ah k nice.

I would imagine that Vaapad would work well against a rage-fueled opponent like Malgus.

I'm voting Windu.

Like or worked against Ventress, Bulq, or Maul?

I doubt he even used Vaapad against Maul. Their fight was one frame and then the Mandalorians shot a rocket at Secura which allowed Maul to escape.

In the RotS novel, Windu had to take a little bit of time to sink into Vaapad.

In Shatterpoint, Windu actively avoided using Vaapad.

Ultimately, his performance against Sidious to me is enough to give him sabers.

Vaapad is a saber form. Why on God's green Earth wouldn't he use it? Also, Shatterpoint isn't canon, and SoD is. Stop trying to cross-reference.

Shatterpoint isn't canon and the movies are. We still cross-reference those. 😬

**** this is going to turn into a circlejerk about Vaapad, can we just avoid that as most of us here know Mace is more skilled than Malgus?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Shatterpoint isn't canon and the movies are. We still cross-reference those. 😬

That's because the movies exist in Legends, nukka. SoD doesn't. Silly comparison is silly.

Originally posted by carthage
**** this is going to turn into a circlejerk about Vaapad, can we just avoid that as most of us here know Mace is more skilled than Malgus?

I hope that on you and everyone else's part, that there are some actual discussions and comparisons of feats and accolades regarding skill, power, physical stats, etc.

People who put Dooku above the Wrath don't deserve to be listened to.

Lightsaber combat

In terms of lightsaber skill Mace is undoubtedly Malgus's superior with accolades calling him second only to Yoda, a champion of the Jedi order, and one of the greatest Swordsmen produced by the Jedi order. He's defeated Asajj Ventress, fought evenly with General Grievous, was reputed to be Dooku's equal on neutral ground, stomped Quinlan Vos, fought evenly with Sora Bulq, along with his accolades that logically place him above Malgus. He'd take any duel with effort on his part.

Force abilities

While Windu is a greater duelist than Malgus, the area of their force abilities is where the greatest disparity lies. Mace Windu has telekinetically destroyed bridges, destroyed battle droids, moved massive doors, used shatterpoint to shatter glass, used force crush on General Grievous. Yet with any of his higher end telekinetic showings he's always required a great deal of effort in comparison to Malgus:

Windu required a great deal of concentration to push this Clone walker off a cliff

Windu struggled to lift a large chunk of metal in R2 Come Home (11:30)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVrBJDIjODY

Mace also found himself unable to lift a train in Shatterpoint, believing that to be something only Yoda was capable of.

In comparison to Malgus who can telekinetically the tons of rubble two buildings (described as an avalanche of duracreet and transparisteel) and blast them away with telekinesis wrecking other buildings in the process decades before his prime in this thread:

Malgus stood in a pocket under a mountain of rubble, legs bent, the power from his upraised hands preventing several tons of duracrete and steel from crushing him. Dust made his already troubled breathing more difficult. He coughed as the words of his father echoed in his mind.

He'd been sloppy, so lost in his need for revenge that he'd failed to properly evaluate the Jedi's power. He'd surrendered his reason to bloodlust. But no more. With an effort of will, he contained his anger, controlled it, made it a whetstone against which he sharpened his power. Using the Force, he blew the rubble up and away from him. It fell with a crash into the adjacent buildings. A Force-augmented leap carried him out and over the heap. The Jedi's eyes widened as Malgus hit the street. Malgus sneered and charged.

Malgus's lightning likewise was capable of overcoming that same Jedi's defenses and burning black holes into his skin:

At 10 meters, Malgus extended his free hand and loosed veins of blue Force lightning. They struck the charging Jedi: swept through his defenses, swirled around him, and began to burn flesh.

Shouting with pain, the Jedi leaned forward into the lightning - teeth bare, blue blades held before him - and staggered toward Malgus. Despite his burns, he came onward. One step, another, another, but he was failing, wilting in the heat of the lightning. Malgus channeled more power and the Jedi fell to his knees, screaming. The lightning spiraled around the Zabrak, blasting dark holes in his body. The lightsabers fell from his hands and he writhed in agony, screaming his pain into the sky

Malgus's lightning has also blown through the defenses of Lord Adraas and Aryn Leneer.

Malgus held forth his hand and the rage within him manifested in blue veins of lightning that discharged from his fingertips and slammed into Adraas. The power stopped Adraas's charge cold, blew his lightsaber from his hand, caught him up in a cage of burning lightning. He screamed, squirming in frustration and pain.

"End it, Malgus! End it!"

-Deceived

As Aryn prepared to leap at Malgus, he held forth a hand, almost casually, and lightning sizzled through the space between them. Aryn interposed her lightsabers, but the power in the lightning exceeded anything she had felt from Malgus before. It blasted through her defenses and both lightsabers flew from her hands. The lightning seized her, lifted her up, and threw her from the top of the shuttle.

As she flew toward the deck, she smelled burning flesh, heard screaming, realized that it was her flesh, her screams. She hit the ground hard and her head bounced off the ground. Sparks erupted in her brain, pain, and everything went dark.

Its worth noting that Leneer can use barrier/deflection to cushion the impact of a telekinetic blast, deflect a telekinetic blast that can topple statues, and use force shield to stop the impact of terminal velocity while falling from a ship.

Yet Malgus was still capable of blasting her across a hangar in their final duel:

Malgus bounced up from the somersault and loosed a telekinetic blast that lifted Aryn from her feet and blew her across the hangar.

-Deceived

Most importantly Malgus's showings as of the False Emperor flashpoint where he telekinetically blasts/chokes, and downs the protags with lightning:

(The characters composing the flashpoint called the Republic/Empire's most powerful heroes)

http://www.swtor.com/holonet/flashpoints/false-emperor

-Scans/Quotes courtesy of Shootingnova/Sunrazer

It stands to reason that once Malgus starts to lose a lightsaber duel, his force abilities in lightning and telekinesis will immediately be a game changer in the match. Windu at his best struggles to lift a single chunk of metal and knock down a Clone walker down a short distance from a cliff's edge, in comparison to Malgus who can blast away the rubble of two buildings (decades before his prime), blast away/choke the Empire/Republic protags, and overpower the barriers/defenses of Aryn Leneer/a Jedi that can collapse buildings would overpower Windu if not swing the match in his favor. While Windu enjoys a skill edge, Malgus can hold his own (as Saesee Tiin/Republic-comics era Ventress) and ultimately close the deal with his vastly superior telekinesis and his raw power advantage.

I feel like I'm forgetting some of Mace's showings in Shatterpoint didn't he collapse a cliff, or uproot trees in the Haruun Kaal jungle as well?

Malgus is no pleb as a duelist and a very dangerous opponent in melee due to his overwhelming physicality. He is considerably more powerful than Mace in the force and that would grant him the victory imo.

I think Mace edges it out

Originally posted by carthage
I feel like I'm forgetting some of Mace's showings in Shatterpoint didn't he collapse a cliff, or uproot trees in the Haruun Kaal jungle as well?

He supposedly lifted hundreds tons of rubble, tbh.

So much Malgus wank, and I can't believe I'm actually about to defend Windu here.

He only "struggled" to lift the piece of metal because him and Anakin just got finished being blown up at point blank. Malgus probably wouldn't have done much better had he eaten an explosion without his armor.

Tossing away a few tons of rubble from absolutely massacred buildings isn't that great, as much as some want to pretend Malgus practically threw two buildings, or that he was way more powerful than a Jedi who did so, it didn't happen. The fact is, Malgus had some of the rubble from both buildings fall above him, so he caught what was immediately above him, no more no less. The Jedi tipped over the rubble of two scorched buildings with shitty foundations, which is nice but not all that great.

Malgus' lightning wouldn't be an issue for Mace, given he was holding back Sidious' lightning, which at the time was potent enough to bend his lightsaber back at him. He even tanked several seconds of Sidious' lightning and only finally died when he hit the ground outside.

The False Emperor showings are also being wanked. In the cutscenes he uses lightning on a team who haven't gotten their weapons out to defend themselves, and also have no readily apparent defences prepped either. Call it shitty cutscene making on SWTOR's part, or idiocy on the character's part, but they were unprepared. Great that his lightning can down 4 people who aren't defending themselves, but not really overwhelming. The Force push is pretty much another example of shitty defence on the protags part. They make no visual attempt to defend themselves. It's a momentary lapse.

The choking is simple gameplay mechanics. Highly doubt the three-phase or whatever "Malgus is coming for you now" shit is meant to literally represent what was happening.

So yeah, Malgus is great, I like him better than Mace, but let's get his war-torn cock out of our throats once and for all, mmk? Besides, his medium-effort, omnidirectional blast that shifted his transport, busted windows and doors inward, sent hordes of people flying at high speeds etc, early on in Deceived is better wank that nobody bothers using.

Stopped caring about this thread when I saw Thanaton beat Wyyrlok, Kek.