Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Malgus was canonically fought as a level 50, so using the fact a level 55 can solo him as an argument is sort of lame.
Nope. It is not, because "level" represents added experience and power. The fact that at level 50, you need multiple people to deal with Malgus, while at level 55, you can come back and kill him on your own, does fit quite nicely into that idea.
Removing "gaming terms" from the equation, one could say that, beyond Makeb, the protagonists have gained enough power / experience to be able to fight Malgus on equal terms, which they couldn't do earlier in their career. Don't see much of a problem with that.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, that's stupid. Malgus died before Makeb. You can't "come back and kill him", he dies on Ilum at a certain point in the story, full stop.
*sigh*
Yes, Neph. You are correct. FOTJ Luke Skywalker also can't go back and kick the ass of TPM Darth Maul. Yet, unlike that purely speculative idea, SW:TOR grants us the ability to actualy see what would happen if post-Makeb characters go and face Malgus on their own. They win.
The game offers an representation of Malgus in the game's world: He is clearly more powerful than any of the protagonists at the end of their class questline. Fact. And then the game moves that protagonists beyond that level, which Malgus had, to a point where they probably could defeat him if they were to face him in combat.
I don't see much problem with that, given that the characters obviously do become more powerful during the events on Makeb. And even more powerful in the events depicted in SoR. Unless you want to assume that Malgus is still more powerful than, let's say, the Hero of Tython post Makeb.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Going by that logic, the PCs can solo Revan as soon as they're done with Act II. That's some pretty shit logic.
If there is a version of Revan that operates under the same game mechanics (SW:TOR RPG stats) at that point in the game and can be beaten, then, yes, they could do that. It would still be just that singular version of him that they could beat, while they would still be inable to solo his SoR version [which will always be impossible, due to the setup of the fight].
I don't know what your problem with that idea is.
Of course enemies that were, let's say, a challenge at the end of Act 1 of the class storyline, wouldn't be a problem for the same protagonist at the end of Act 2. In the same regard, Malgus as he is presented in the game would probably not be a challenge for a protag at the end of Makeb or SoR, just because of the additional stuff the heroes did between facing Malgus for the first time and the end of the respective storylines.
Originally posted by Nai
If there is a version of Revan that operates under the same game mechanics (SW:TOR RPG stats) at that point in the game and can be beaten, then, yes, they could do that. It would still be just that singular version of him that they could beat, while they would still be inable to solo his SoR version [which will always be impossible, due to the setup of the fight].I don't know what your problem with that idea is.
Of course enemies that were, let's say, a challenge at the end of Act 1 of the class storyline, wouldn't be a problem for the same protagonist at the end of Act 2. In the same regard, Malgus as he is presented in the game would probably not be a challenge for a protag at the end of Makeb or SoR, just because of the additional stuff the heroes did between facing Malgus for the first time and the end of the respective storylines.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Because level, as I've said a few times, is an arbitrary game mechanic. It has no basis in lore and only exists for abilities to be granted, part of the reason I like level sync exist is ending all of the arguments like this one.
It is not arbitrary in case of the player characters because it "grows" with a passing of the storyline or a "growth" in other kind of challenges (e.g. beating "higher level" mobs). At level 2 the protagonist is more experienced / skilled than at level 1. All the things ingame just represent that gain of experience (e.g. better force abilities / lightsaber attacks).
So if the level 50 protagonist struggles with something, it stands to reason that the level 55 (aka "more experienced and more powerful"😉 protagonist wouldn't struggle as much, while the level 60 protagonist ("even more powerful and experienced"😉 would maybe see it as a piece of cake.
Of course, the "levels" themselves are assigned in an arbitrary fashion. They still represent a certain amount of skill and experience within the game. The question is, whether you see them as a legit representation. E.g.: Do you think that the experience on Makeb (storywise) is accurately represented by the additional levels gained [and the abilities that come with them].
The point here is, that they obviously thought Malgus would be accurately represented by making him a challenge for X people on level 50. Now that is were he stays because, as far as the storyline is concerned, he died at that particular state-of-being. But the protagonists evolved. So is it reasonable to assume that post-Makeb protagonists can beat that Malgus? I don't see why they shouldn't be, as they - obviously - grow more powerful during the time (years?) that pass between the rise of the False Emperor and the end of the events on Makeb.
Essentially, you're not criticizing that "level" is something arbitrary assigned to characters. You're feeling that it doesn't accurately represents the storyline development / character history of figures involved. Did I get that right?
What is the difference between the random mobs on Corellia and the random mobs on Hoth? What is the difference between the Imperial Guards on Yavin and the ones on Dromund Kaas? Nothing. Because level isn't a measure of anything.
Yeah. What is the difference between them? Can it be, that the mobs you face on Hoth have grown up in a rougher enviroment than those on Tatooine? Are the Imperial Guard on Yavin the top dogs of their organisation, because they have managed to survive so far? Can a Massassi Warrior kick the living crap out of a Wampa?
To be honest: I don't know. But I don't have much reason to argue here either, because there is no "development" (aka "change of level"😉 happening to those creatures. Of course, it is kind of laughable to argue, that the level 56 Orobird would totally destroy Darth Thanaton in combat, because of level. Saying the same about the level 56 Darth Nox would be a different matter.
Orgus Din is currently level 50 in this game. Why did he lose to a level 31 pleb like Angral then, several times I might add? I'm guessing that it might have something to do with level not actually existing in game, but I could be wrong.
And I thought, Orgus Din was pretty much dead in this game. 😉
But again: My original statement was made in reference to player characters and not to NPCs and in that particular case, it's quite laughable to put Din in as a level 50 NPC when you know, that he is going to be defeated by a lower level NPC anyway. 😉