Originally posted by Galan007
The reaction that resulted from all of those items becoming unstable is what took Krona down, yes. However, that certainly doesn't mean all of those items' collective energies were required just to defeat him. For example: if Lex Luthor were killed by a multiversal collapse, that doesn't mean it requires a minimum of multiverse-busting energy to kill him.You're trying to impose a reverse no-limits fallacy, lol.
Anywho, the ALE can give its master control over nearly all sentient beings--ergo AM effortlessly taking control of Death itself, and turning it against Darkseid... And despite his immense power, absolutely nothing indicates that Krona would be immune to the ALE's effects.
A reverse No Limits Fallacy? Isn't that what you've just done? You're stating that the because the ALE was capable of subduing Death, that no being is capable of resisting its power. Like I said, if the IG were the only item needed, it was overkill to seek out any of the others. It's not like saying that Lex died when the multiverse imploded and it took that amount of power to remove him from existence in any way. What you've attempted was to oversimplify things. Krona was that powerful, and he was destroying universes to find out the answer to his question. He actually had Eternity and Infinity in his grasp. How can you make it seem like enthralling Death would actually be on a larger scale? If anything the best answer to this thread is a resounding I couldn't begin to tell you who would win.
Originally posted by StoicYou don't seem to understand.
A reverse No Limits Fallacy? Isn't that what you've just done? You're stating that the because the ALE was capable of subduing Death, that no being is capable of resisting its power. Like I said, if the IG were the only item needed, it was overkill to seek out any of the others. It's not like saying that Lex died when the multiverse imploded and it took that amount of power to remove him from existence in any way. What you've attempted was to oversimplify things. Krona was that powerful, and he was destroying universes to find out the answer to his question. He actually had Eternity and Infinity in his grasp. How can you make it seem like enthralling Death would actually be on a larger scale? If anything the best answer to this thread is a resounding I couldn't begin to tell you who would win.
It was NEVER so much as alluded to that the cumulative power of all those items was required to defeat Krona. That just happened to be the energy that was released when Hawkeye destroyed Krona's tech. Again: if Lex Luthor were killed by a multiversal collapse, that doesn't mean it requires a minimum of multiverse-busting energy to kill him... Yet by your line of 'logic', that's exactly what it would mean. srsly
You also don't seem to understand what the ALE is. At all. It enabled AM to control an abstract entity: Death. That's what it does--think the Mind Gem+Soul Gem on steroids. Conversely, this version of Krona has NO showings which suggest he'd be immune to the ALE's effects. None. THAT'S the difference. The scale/scope of Krona's raw power is irrelevant.
Originally posted by Galan007
You don't seem to understand.It was NEVER so much as alluded to that the cumulative power of all those items was required to defeat Krona. That just happened to be the energy that was released when Hawkeye destroyed Krona's tech. Again: if Lex Luthor were killed by a multiversal collapse, that doesn't mean it requires a minimum of multiverse-busting energy to kill him... Yet by your line of 'logic', that's exactly what it would mean. srsly
You also don't seem to understand what the ALE is. At all. It enabled AM to control an abstract entity: Death. That's what it does--think the Mind Gem+Soul Gem on steroids. Conversely, this version of Krona has NO showings which suggest he'd be immune to the ALE's effects. None. THAT'S the difference. The scale/scope of Krona's raw power is irrelevant.
We all have our opinions. You're certainly entitled to yours. I fail to see any evidence proving that one would defeat the other. If the other items weren't needed they wouldn't have been included.
Originally posted by Galan007
Krona never directly resisted the items' power. In fact, said items were ultimately responsible for his downfall:
There's also another detail I overlooked for years:
I've seen some use the Superman-Thor encounter as some reason to gauge them, people laugh at Supes punching Thor to sleep.
But what many don't realize is that the Marvel heroes were weaker within the DC reality.
... except for Wanda, who was amped by DC's chaos magic, but at the cost of her life-force getting drained.
Originally posted by Stoic
Krona was that powerful, He actually had Eternity and Infinity in his grasp.How can you make it seem like enthralling Death would actually be on a larger scale?
Krona only affected Eternity and Kismet via the 12 items.
Hilarious, when the IG alone has stomped Eternity in one move.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Stoic, good friend, Krona never was a threat to Eternity, or Infinity who wasn't even part of the story.Krona only affected Eternity and Kismet via the 12 items.
Hilarious, when the IG alone has stomped Eternity in one move.
Okay I have to go back and re-read those books. I could have sworn that Krona had the power to casually wipe out universes like a normal person would wreck a living room with a sledge hammer? I'll go back and check it out when I have the time. Also what gave you the idea that the Marvel characters were weakened? I missed that as well. Is there some way to prove this claim? If true that wouldn't bode well for Superman's apparent victory over Thor.
Originally posted by Galan007
In every previous DC continuity, Black Racer=a universal aspect of Death. There is no indication that he's a lesser entity in the DCnU.In fact, given that Darkseid himself is significantly more powerful in the DCnU than he's ever been depicted in the past(AM fed on entire universes prior to even attempting to confront him), yet his dues ex machina 'weapon' against AM was still the Black Racer/Death, I'd say BR is likely an even greater force than we've seen in the past.
Sigh...we both know it doesn't work like this Galan.
That's Darkseid. We do not share fts or make assumptions based off what another character has done.
Sigh...one of the Universes he supposedly consumed still had planets and star. Earth was shattered. A lot of speculation pointed towards him consuming universes. Then it was done off panel. Most likely hyper bole.
Originally posted by the DarkoneJustice League #44.
Galan which issues did darksied die in the recent darksied anti monitor war??
Originally posted by carver9That's exactly how it works, lol. Regardless of what you believe, Anti-Monitor did consume the energy of entire universes prior to engaging Darkseid(this was confirmed a few different times, on-panel.) We also know that Darkseid himself was destroying/consuming universes as well:
Sigh...we both know it doesn't work like this Galan.That's Darkseid. We do not share fts or make assumptions based off what another character has done.
Sigh...one of the Universes he supposedly consumed still had planets and star. Earth was shattered. A lot of speculation pointed towards him consuming universes. Then it was done off panel. Most likely hyper bole.
Like it or not, that is the level they were both operating at. On-panel evidence>carver9. 👆
And despite wielding such gargantuan power, Darkseid's dues ex machina weapon was still the Black Racer/Death. Why? Because as evident by Racer significantly injuring AM with a glancing blow, AND outright killing Darkseid, he was >>> both of them.
Here's some additional info on his DCnU incarnation:
And again: AM used the ALE to effortlessly take control of Black Racer/Death, and turn him into his own personal puppet.
That said, there is NO reason to assume Krona could resist the ALE.
Originally posted by StoicI could have sworn that Krona had the power to casually wipe out universes
like a normal person would wreck a living room with a sledge hammer?
Grandmaster was owned before using said items.
As a last ditch effort, Grandmaster used the items to trap Krona between DC and Marvel
Krona managed to escape and continued the process Grandmaster had started,
keeping Eternity and Kismet merged via the items.
Originally posted by StoicAlso what gave you the idea that the Marvel characters were weakened?
The Marvel heroes (in general) were just straight up weaker than the DC cats:
Aquaman compares the heroes of Marvel with DC's: (regardless of where they stood)
"Heroes here seem less powerful ... than at home"
Aquaman follows on that point and tells Supes, "they have to fight amazingly hard just to keep things on an even keel"
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Damn, Kurt Busiek (writer) made the Marvels the underdogs before the fights started. 🙁 (well, except for Wanda)
Originally posted by Stoic
Okay I have to go back and re-read those books. I could have sworn that Krona had the power to casually wipe out universes like a normal person would wreck a living room with a sledge hammer? I'll go back and check it out when I have the time. Also what gave you the idea that the Marvel characters were weakened? I missed that as well. Is there some way to prove this claim? If true that wouldn't bode well for Superman's apparent victory over Thor.
I have to reread it too it seems as:
1.) Krona was in the Marvel U with his Glactus castle when the items were used to trap him between the Universes. Logic indicates that if the IG or the items combined were powerful enough to destroy him Grandmaster wouldn't need to trap him 😉.
2.) The heroes were not less powerful in the DCU, for some of them the contrary can be said, like Scarlet Witch. Flash on the other hand became less powerful. I think the troll indicating that they were depowered has some reading comprehension issues. Aquaman states that he doesn't envy the heroes from Marvel because they seem less powerful in general, than at home (iow the heroes from marvel operate on a lower level than the heroes on our world), he makes clear that he talks about this when he further adds "AND their World is stacked against them so they have to fight hard to keep it on an equal level" Superman adds that they fight not hard enough, then we see batman apologizing to CA for the harsh words. It's about the populace of Marvel Earth not worshipping the heroes like the DC people do and them being less powerful in general.
facepalm@the trolls desperate attemt to lie.
EDit: Also Aquaman being the best choice to gauge powerlevels and knowing who is where less or more powerful and being so familiar with the "original" powerlevels of the Marvel heroes is lulzworthy.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbeThe backlash of energy from the items did undo him, though. We saw this at the end.
1.) Krona was in the Marvel U with his Glactus castle when the items were used to trap him between the Universes. Logic indicates that if the IG or the items combined were powerful enough to destroy him Grandmaster wouldn't need to trap him 😉.
Originally posted by Galan007
Krona never directly resisted the items' power. In fact, said items were ultimately responsible for his downfall:
http://i.imgur.com/0RHjCmG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AMrdpD4.jpg
^^ 👆
Originally posted by Stoic
If true that wouldn't bode well for Superman's apparent victory over Thor.
Now we understand what Supes meant by saying:
"Sorry to disappoint, ... But in ... my world ... it looks like the dials go up to eleven"
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Busiek felt that DC heroes operate on a higher bar. Probably true. ("in general"😉
