Valkorion vs Darth Plagueis & Darth Sidious

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Killing thousands of Jedi and turning the Chosen One wouldn't have shifted the balance of the Force?

Well, yeah. I still don't understand how Plagueis dying over a decade before any of that has anything to do with it, though.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Well by the butterfly effect I mean that I don't really know, like maybe Plagueis would've sabotaged Palpatine's attempts to turn Anakin, and then gotten unmasked by Yoda, and the two would've been exposed, etc.

In either case, there's no denying that Sidious's killing of Plagueis was of historical importance.

No one is denying that Sidious killing Plagueis is historically important. But Palpatine's presence is infinitely more important to the events set in motion than Plagueis'a absence.

Yeah but Palpatine was already present beforehand. The real question is whether his boost in power is more important than Plagueis's death.

We're not debating which was more important to the Grand Plan; we're debating which unbalanced the Force right then and there, not a decade later. And the answer to the latter is Sidious' boost.

It's possible that implications on future events balance/unbalance the Force. Canon example: the Force being "awakened", presumably by Rey.

Not sure if it has any relevance, but I recall that Krayt managed to unbalance the Force as well.

Not seeing how Plagueis death did anything to further the Grand Plan bar elevating Sidious, historically little would have gone differently. Evidently though Plagueis death has something to do with this shift i.e. in the sense that the dark side once held by two coalesced around one, making that one more powerful and deepening the shift to the dark side in the process.

More to the point its obvious that Sidious is the spearhead in all this, he dark side has "anointed him", he is the one responsible for the imbalance, hence why balance to the Force is restored with his death, not undone by Plagueis'.

This is actually an excellent point Azronger has raised, I hadn't picked up on the fact it describes an "irrevocable" in the Force. Furthermore if we consider that Maul only senses the imbalance in the Force upon his revival, as opposed to after Plagueis and Sidious ritual, it would seem this shift was even more potent. The Jedi only seem to pick up on the imbalance nearer to the Clone Wars as well.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not sure if it has any relevance, but I recall that Krayt managed to unbalance the Force as well.

Quote?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
It's possible that implications on future events balance/unbalance the Force. Canon example: the Force being "awakened", presumably by Rey.

That's not an unbalancing, just a ripple.

Now, do you actually have something to support this theory of yours?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not seeing how Plagueis death did anything to further the Grand Plan bar elevating Sidious, historically little would have gone differently. Evidently though Plagueis death has something to do with this shift i.e. in the sense that the dark side once held by two coalesced around one, making that one more powerful and deepening the shift to the dark side in the process.

More to the point its obvious that Sidious is the spearhead in all this, he dark side has "anointed him", he is the one responsible for the imbalance, hence why balance to the Force is restored with his death, not undone by Plagueis'.

This is actually an excellent point Azronger has raised, I hadn't picked up on the fact it describes an "irrevocable" in the Force. Furthermore if we consider that Maul only senses the imbalance in the Force upon his revival, as opposed to after Plagueis and Sidious ritual, it would seem this shift was even more potent. The Jedi only seem to pick up on the imbalance nearer to the Clone Wars as well.

👆

Pretty sure a ripple and unbalancing are different in degree, not kind.

Duo, obviously.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Duo, obviously.