Star Trek: Discovery

Originally posted by -Pr-
I wouldn't say mad, as much as disappointed. Feels kinda like a giant bait and switch. I don't see how it's over-critical though, tbh.

Really, though? You don't see comics fans get that mad? Our board alone has freakouts every time there's a big retcon.

As someone who's new to the franchise, I'm more capable of viewing this objectively and it's nowhere near as bad as the hardcore's are making it out to be.

Also, I'm not saying Star Wars and Comic fans can't be annoying as well, wanting things to be canonical kinda comes with the territory of being a fan of something, and with that comes being overly critical when things are changed.

I've always been into Star Wars, but since i don't get into any of the EU stuff, i wouldn't call myself a huge fan, as for comics, i DO get the frustration when things are changed... but you Trek fans are on another level.

Comic fans for instance are way more accepting of the Marvel Netflix shows, despite the numerous changes made to canon. Probably has a lot to do with there not being 3 decades of movies/tv shows to compare the new stuff to like there is with Star Trek.

Originally posted by marwash22
I think it's over critical because you're a hardcore whose complaints about the show aren't actually about the show, but about how the show isn't what you wanted or expected it to be.

As someone who's new to the franchise, I'm more capable of viewing this objectively and it's nowhere near as bad as the hardcore's are making it out to be.

Also, I'm not saying Star Wars and Comic fans can't be annoying as well, wanting things to be canonical kinda comes with the territory of being a fan of something, and with that comes being overly critical when things are changed.

I've always been into Star Wars, but since i don't get into any of the EU stuff, i wouldn't call myself a huge fan, as for comics, i DO get the frustration when things are changed... but you Trek fans are on another level.

Comic fans for instance are way more accepting of the Marvel Netflix shows, despite the numerous changes made to canon. Probably has a lot to do with there not being 3 decades of movies/tv shows to compare the new stuff to like there is with Star Trek.

Can't say I really agree, tbh.

The moment they put the Trek banner on this, the show lost any real chance of being properly examined in a vacuum. When you take on a property like this, you take what comes with it unless you categorically state that it's a retcon, like Abrams did to a large extent.

It really feels like the showrunners here want to have their cake and eat it too. I already said it was okay as generic sci-fi, but removing the "Trek" from it doesn't suddenly make it a really good show. It has its issues either way.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Can't say I really agree, tbh.

Originally posted by -Pr-
The moment they put the Trek banner on this, the show lost any real chance of being properly examined in a vacuum.

Originally posted by marwash22
of course not.

unless it's being viewed and examined by someone who isn't a lifelong fan with biases and preconceptions.

It's calling itself Star Trek. If you don't want that to factor in, that's fair enough, but I really don't think you can be truly fair unless it IS factored in.

Besides, even if you take it out, it doesn't suddenly become an amazing show. Strange, inconsistent dialogue, weird delivery and badly defined characters, at least thus far, still hurt the show either way imo.

Just a note about what you said earlier, though? The Netflix example doesn't really fly here. Showrunners told us that this existed in the prime continuity. Flat out stated it. It isn't like Netflix Marvel where you aren't impacting the comics when you change things.

If the makers of ST: D come out and say "Nope, it's our own new timeline" then pretty much every Trek related complaint goes out the window and the fans like me can enjoy it just fine. Perhaps even more-so.

Edited to remove snippiness.

You misunderstood what i said. I'm not saying i don't want the show being called Star Trek to factor in... I'm saying that, because i have no prior exposure to the other Star Trek series, it factually doesn't factor in, and thus, I have no biases or preconceptions about what THIS show should be.

can you edit it again to put the "snippiness" back in? I feel like something's missing now, like I'm not getting the real you.

Originally posted by marwash22
You misunderstood what i said. I'm not saying i don't want the show being called Star Trek to factor in... I'm saying that, because i have no prior exposure to the other Star Trek series, it factually doesn't factor in, and thus, I have no biases or preconceptions about what THIS show should be.

can you edit it again to put the "snippiness" back in? I feel like something's missing now, like I'm not getting the real you.

No, I get that. I just don't think that it allows you to have a truly objective view either, because this show is painting itself as being Star Trek, and unless you know what that entails, then I don't think you can see the entire picture. It's not your fault or anything, mind you. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing not to have seen it.

I'd rather not, tbh. It would have escalated things, and I don't want to be mean.

Originally posted by marwash22
You misunderstood what i said. I'm not saying i don't want the show being called Star Trek to factor in... I'm saying that, because i have no prior exposure to the other Star Trek series, it factually doesn't factor in, and thus, I have no biases or preconceptions about what THIS show should be.

can you edit it again to put the "snippiness" back in? I feel like something's missing now, like I'm not getting the real you.

If the show wants to call itself Star Trek it should have a level of consistency with the brand. If they don't want to do that then they're welcome to come up with an all new sci-fi series, that way there'd be no prior bias or preconceptions (as you call it) for anyone.

But clearly they wanted to use the name "Star Trek", and so as such they should be ready for complaints based on them using that brand name, where justified.

I don't disagree with that.

again, and i don't know how to say it any other way, I'm not saying ignoring canon is a good thing to do... I'm saying that as someone who has no clue about the canon, I can judge this show for what it is, and not what it's "supposed to be".

If you've been a Star Trek from the jump, you have biases that make you incapable of enjoying this show for what it is.

not sure what the issue is with me saying that, or how you can disagree with the statement.

Originally posted by marwash22
I don't disagree with that.

again, and i don't know how to say it any other way, I'm not saying ignoring canon is a good thing to do... I'm saying that as someone who has no clue about the canon, I can judge this show for what it is, and not what it's "supposed to be".

If you've been a Star Trek from the jump, you have biases that make you incapable of enjoying this show for what it is.

not sure what the issue is with me saying that, or how you can disagree with the statement.

As much as I disagree, let's be fair. Let's discuss the show completely absent Star Trek. Let's treat it like a brand new show.

You've said you like it so far, so mind elaborating on that?

I agree, IMO this isn't Trek, not like it should be. I always like what JJ Abrams said about the shows, it's like submarine warfare. It's slower paced. Abrams made them more action movies, sorta like Star Wars. They were good, but didn't necessarily carry the essence of "Trek".

It's only something I think one can understand if they have seen a decent amount of either the original series or all the other tv series. It sounds nerdy to say(and it is totally nerdy) but there is a "trek" feeling out there. A lot of the episodes in the first season of TNG are not very good, but they have that "trek" feeling.

Perhaps as this show goes on it will capture that. Or perhaps it will just be like the Abrams movies where it's good, but it's only Trek in name only.

I just heard some guy say that the Show is making the NuKlingons the same as White Supremacists? It that true?

There is some talk about purity and keeping the Klingon Empire Klingon, so there are some obvious allusions, but it's early days as of yet.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]I just heard some guy say that the Show is making the NuKlingons the same as White Supremacists? It that true? [/B]

Those behind the show have literally said the Klingons are Trumpers lol.

Originally posted by Surtur
“Star Trek: Discovery” creators: Our Klingons are secretly Trumpsters

Sigh, this is gonna suck.

So if I want to watch TNG it's not necessary to complete the original series first, right? They're each kind of stand alone?

Originally posted by marwash22
I think it's over critical because you're a hardcore whose complaints about the show aren't actually about the show, but about how the show isn't what you wanted or expected it to be.

As someone who's new to the franchise, I'm more capable of viewing this objectively and it's nowhere near as bad as the hardcore's are making it out to be.

That said, I'm not one of the old school Trek fans. I loved the new movies and they are what introduced me to the franchise. I liked them enough that I went back to watch some of the old content, and I realized exactly why this series has the fanbase it does. I wouldn't mind a newer series keeping in line with the content of the older series. I actually think that'd be a treat

Although, I still haven't gotten around to watching this yet. It seems to be sitting at around a 7.3 on IMBD which isn't bad. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with it after I finish Fargo.

Originally posted by BackFire
So if I want to watch TNG it's not necessary to complete the original series first, right? They're each kind of stand alone?

There's some references and callbacks, but they're few and far between. You can't really watch DS9 or Voyager without watching TNG first, but TNG is a good starting point yeah.

The order I'd watch them in would be TNG, DS9, and then Voyager.

Poop wrapped in shit smells better then this series.

What series of considered the best generally? Is TNG considered the best ST series? I've heard a lot of people saying DS9 is really good.

The one with Picard, DS9 is for vaginas.