Re: Where would the Monitors Rank in the MU?
Anti-Monitor COIE above LT, SC Galactus level, Current slightly below LT.
Mandrakk I above LT, Mandrakk II slightly above LT
Nix Uotan, Super Judge, God Doom level
Monitor Race current Beyonder race level, can job like them, can own like them
And the Monitor, the original Monitor is hard to judge, seemed more like Skyfather level
-COIE Anti-Monitor(full-power)=multiversal+/abstract. SC Anti-Monitor=galaxy-level/low-Skyfather. DCnU Anti-Monitor=multi-universal/cosmic. DCnU Anti-Monitor /w/ ALE=multiversal/abstract.
-Mandrakk I=metatextual/beyond abstract.
-Nix Uotan(SUPAJUDGE!!)=metatextual/abstract.
-Monitor Race(on average)=universal/cosmic.
-Original Monitor from COIE=multiversal/abstract.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygonThe Primal Monitor is essentially the sentient whiteness of a physical comic book page. It is the 'canvas' which gives the ink life, so to speak. It is so vast that the original/infinite DC multiverse was the size of a germ in comparison. It transcends ALL--even the concept of thought.
How about thr Primal Monitor? He seems to be the strongest Monitor. The entire DC Multiverse is said to be just a bacterium to him.
Originally posted by Galan007
-COIE Anti-Monitor(full-power)=multiversal+/abstract. SC Anti-Monitor=galaxy-level/low-Skyfather. DCnU Anti-Monitor=multi-universal/cosmic. DCnU Anti-Monitor /w/ ALE=multiversal/abstract.
-Mandrakk I=metatextual/beyond abstract.
-Nix Uotan(SUPAJUDGE!!)=metatextual/abstract.
-Monitor Race(on average)=universal/cosmic.
-Original Monitor from COIE=multiversal/abstract.The Primal Monitor is essentially the sentient whiteness of a physical comic book page. It is the 'canvas' which gives the ink life, so to speak. It is so vast that the original/infinite DC multiverse was the size of a germ in comparison. It transcends ALL--even the concept of thought.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygonTotally unclear. The Presence birthed creation within the Primal Monitor, but that doesn't necessarily mean one is more powerful than the other. After all, the Primal Monitor was able to contain the 'flaw'(ie. multiverse), but it could not destroy/erase it.
So, in other words, it is even above The Presence/Scottish terrier/Yahweh/Wally in the DC hierarchy?
Originally posted by Galan007Its interesting going back to Zero Hour after that.The Primal Monitor is essentially the sentient whiteness of a physical comic book page. It is the 'canvas' which gives the ink life, so to speak. It is so vast that the original/infinite DC multiverse was the size of a germ in comparison. It transcends ALL--even the concept of thought.
Where Hal wiped out everything and walked on the blank page of creation and started creating.
Originally posted by JuntaiIf we retroactively apply the Primal Monitor concept, then all of creation had already been contained/bottled by the Primal Monitor's 'tech' by the time Zero Hour came around:
Its interesting going back to Zero Hour after that.Where Hal wiped out everything and walked on the blank page of creation and started creating.
IOW, Hal still would have been inside said tech after he wiped out creation(and began remaking it), thus the Primal Monitor's 'influence' would not have applied to him. Essentially, he was sealed-off from the Over-Void/Monitor-Mind. Had Hal been exposed to the Over-Void, he would have been entirely negated from existence, until the very idea of him was lost--just like Mandrakk was.
Originally posted by Galan007
Totally unclear. The Presence birthed creation within the Primal Monitor, but that doesn't necessarily mean one is more powerful than the other. After all, the Primal Monitor was able to contain the 'flaw'(ie. multiverse), but it could not destroy/erase it.
That's how I view WF Mxy as well. He had powers beyond the 4th wall (he is the strongest "5D" imp, after all), but he is essentially still bound by the rules of the comic. Thus, the events of World's Funnest, Emperor Joker, CoIE, Final Crisis, etc. were all still under the jurisdiction of The Presence. In other words, everything in the comic (the ink on the canvas) is within The Presence's control.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygonIt should also be noted that the Overvoid=Primal Monitor=The Source. So one could say that any who have returned from beyond the Source Wall, have technically returned from the Overvoid as well. WL Kyle Rayner did this most recently.
Yep, that makes sense.That's how I view WF Mxy as well. He had powers beyond the 4th wall (he is the strongest "5D" imp, after all), but he is essentially still bound by the rules of the comic. Thus, the events of World's Funnest, Emperor Joker, CoIE, Final Crisis, etc. were all still under the jurisdiction of The Presence. In other words, everything in the comic (the ink on the canvas) is within The Presence's control.
...But you only return from the Overvoid/Source if it lets you return.
Originally posted by Galan007
It should also be noted that the Overvoid=Primal Monitor=The Source. So one could say that any who have returned from beyond the Source Wall, have technically returned from the Overvoid as well. WL Kyle Rayner did this most recently....But you only return from the Overvoid/Source if it lets you return.
I'm more interested in the regular Monitor race. Do you see them around celestial level?
Originally posted by Galan007
-COIE Anti-Monitor(full-power)=multiversal+/abstract. SC Anti-Monitor=galaxy-level/low-Skyfather. DCnU Anti-Monitor=multi-universal/cosmic. DCnU Anti-Monitor /w/ ALE=multiversal/abstract.
-Mandrakk I=metatextual/beyond abstract.
-Nix Uotan(SUPAJUDGE!!)=metatextual/abstract.
-Monitor Race(on average)=universal/cosmic.
-Original Monitor from COIE=multiversal/abstract.The Primal Monitor is essentially the sentient whiteness of a physical comic book page. It is the 'canvas' which gives the ink life, so to speak. It is so vast that the original/infinite DC multiverse was the size of a germ in comparison. It transcends ALL--even the concept of thought.
👆
Originally posted by Galan007
If we retroactively apply the Primal Monitor concept, then all of creation had already been contained/bottled by the Primal Monitor's 'tech' by the time Zero Hour came around:
http://i.imgur.com/YDwI7cX.jpgIOW, Hal still would have been inside said tech after he wiped out creation(and began remaking it), thus the Primal Monitor's 'influence' would not have applied to him. Essentially, he was sealed-off from the Over-Void/Monitor-Mind. Had Hal been exposed to the Over-Void, he would have been entirely negated from existence, until the very idea of him was lost--just like Mandrakk was.
I must say that Dax Novu was erased only because it has been its opposite, i.e. the Thought Robot with its metatexatual powers to symbolically do the act of pushing it down where it came from (Primal Monitor).
For the rest, we know that Dax Novu entered and went out of the "flaw" at will, since as a direct probe/extension of the Primal Monitor him and the latter are basically the same in substance; we indeed also know that, after corruption by the concept of "story", Dax Novu retired again in the Overvoid, where it stayed for eons while festing on the Bleed of the DCU.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Yep, that makes sense.That's how I view WF Mxy as well. He had powers beyond the 4th wall (he is the strongest "5D" imp, after all), but he is essentially still bound by the rules of the comic. Thus, the events of World's Funnest, Emperor Joker, CoIE, Final Crisis, etc. were all still under the jurisdiction of The Presence. In other words, everything in the comic (the ink on the canvas) is within The Presence's control.
I'm not honestly so sure about that in regards of Dax Novu, Thought Robot and the Monitor Sphere.
- In reference to Dax Novu, you can see here above my post referred to what Galan said.
- Thought Robot standed for a substantial amount of time outside of the flaw, just completely floating in the Primal Monitor beside the pre-COIE DCU. It was thus completely outside of the Presence's creation, then, when the Circle of Monitors came, it was "engulfed" at the edge of the Monitor Sphere.
Of Thought Robot Superman as a whole you can think as the most powerful combination of the best from both Presence and Primal Monitor: indeed, Superman represents the essence, the best idea ever conceived by the Presence, while the Thought Robot makes such an idea "practical" and shapes it thanks to the limitless powers of the Primal Monitor.
- Regarding the Monitor Sphere, it was stated that it has been specifically thought by the Primal Monitor itself as an interface between itself and creation. In FC the Monitors and their World literally disappeared because they (and the PM as a direct consequence) realised they were a danger for the DCU.
