Where would the Monitors Rank in the MU?

Started by Galan0072 pages

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
I must say that Dax Novu was erased only because it has been its opposite, i.e. the Thought Robot with its metatexatual powers to symbolically do the act of pushing it down where it came from (Primal Monitor).
For the rest, we know that Dax Novu entered and went out of the "flaw" at will, since as a direct probe/extension of the Primal Monitor him and the latter are basically the same in substance; we indeed also know that, after corruption by the concept of "story", Dax Novu retired again in the Overvoid, where it stayed for eons while festing on the Bleed of the DCU.
It was never stated that Novu/Mandrakk went in and out of the Overvoid/multiverse at will. All that was stated is that he was the Primal Monitor's 'Science Probe'--meant to study and observe the multiverse.

However, almost immediately after entering the multiverse, Novu was contaminated/corrupted by the concept of 'story'. He was then locked away in the Sepulchre of Nil. We know the Sepulchre=/=the Overvoid, because we saw what happened to Novu/Mandrakk when he actually fell into the Overvoid:

Originally posted by Galan007
It was never stated that Novu/Mandrakk went in and out of the Overvoid/multiverse at will. All that was stated is that he was the Primal Monitor's 'Science Probe'--meant to study and observe the multiverse.

However, almost immediately after entering the multiverse, Novu was contaminated/corrupted by the concept of 'story'. He was then locked away in the Sepulchre of Nil. We know the Sepulchre=/=the Overvoid, because we saw what happened to Novu/Mandrakk when he actually fell into the Overvoid:

It was however also stated that Dax Novu enetered the infinite multiverse (which was bottled by the Primal Monitor), mapped it all and then, once corrupted, he withdrew from it.
At that time, there was no Monitor Sphere and, outside of the DCU it was only Overvoid, which is also the "place" where Dax Novu ultimately placed the Thought Robot, making the flaw safe by sealing it.

Only after all of that the Primal Monitor thought the Monitor Sphere and the Nil, but Novu was already retired in the Abyss by the time.

Good God. Post either links or thumbnails, dude. These blown up mega-scans are retardedly annoying, and certainly don't get your point across any better. srsly

Anyway, as Morrison's Multiversal Map shows us: there are several realms outside of the multiverse/Orrery that Novu could have 'withdrawn' to, without stepping beyond the Source Wall and into the Overvoid:
http://i.imgur.com/pYJABxM.jpg

This is an important note, because Novu didn't withdraw from the multiverse/Orrery until he had already been corrupted by the stories he found there. And again: we saw what happened to a corrupted Novu(aka. Mandrakk) when he actually fell into the Overvoid--he was completely unmade:

The exact same thing would have happened to him if he'd of withdrawn into the Overvoid after being initially corrupted, imo. So no, I can't agree that Novu/Mandrakk could travel freely from the multiverse to the Overvoid. No evidence is suggestive of this. To the contrary, the evidence suggests that doing so would have destroyed him.

I remember in that Maelstrom arc in Quasar's comic there were two abstracts named Origin and Un-being who were basically the same role as the whole "Story" bs and they were pretty low on the totem pole in the grand scheme of things as far as abstract cosmic beings seem to be

Can however the Multiverse Map be considered valid in its totality also for the time when Novu created the Thought Robot (pre-COIE DC)?

Of course. After all, the multiverse was already operating in full-swing when Novu was originally created. That's why he was subsequently corrupted by the stories he found there.

Here's the entire scene, for context:
http://i.imgur.com/DEDRWxr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QuBHAO6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wVQvMiS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NPQcEsW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aIlBlfq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/N76tdv7.jpg

No, sorry, that's not what I meant: I read FC, I should have been more clear with my question.
What I mean is this:

- from Superman Beyond 001-021 we see the Thought Robot standing next to the original, infinite DC Multiverse (with the latter that got originally bottled by Primal Monitor itself) and both the bottle of the Multiverse and TR float in the Overvoid.
Then, DC gets rebooted many times up to the actual disposition of the Multiversity map, where we see that the Monitor Sphere encompasses the rest of creation, including the Sphere of Gods and Limbo, having the function of an interface between the Primal Monitor and DC.

- Now, being said that, let's get back to Novu for a moment: you rightfully wrote the following part

Originally posted by Galan007
There are several realms outside of the multiverse/Orrery that Novu could have 'withdrawn' to, without stepping beyond the Source Wall and into the Overvoid.

But are we sure that those several realms (which are encompassed by Nil in the current Multiversity map) were even there at the time of the pre-COIE DC multiverse, when Novu mapped it all?
Mine is a honest and genuine question, since what both the Superman Beyond issues and the Multiversity Guidebook show us in that regard is the infinite original multiverse bottled, and, outside of it, only Overvoid. So, what I'm asking in a nutshell is if Heaven, Hell and all of the rest of possible dimensions could at the time being considred included in the "primordial bottle" created by the Primal Monitor itself, which we also see in the guidebook; indeed, if this was the case, when Dax Novu withdrew from the flaw (DC), the only "place" he could have come back to is the Overvoid itself.
Hope my question is more clear now.

- The same argument could be made also for Thought Robot: indeed, conversely had hypothetically Mandrakk Novu won by pushing Thought Robot in the Overvoid, I surely agree the latter would have been erased as well, in the same way that actually happened to Novu Mandrakk itself.
However, the very Superman Beyond issue shows us the Thought Robot standing in the Overvoid and being completely fine in it, in a time before the Nil even came to existence.

I don't obviously dismiss the capability of the Primal Monitor to erase the concepts of both Dax Novu and TR from existence if necessary (it clearly happened, the PM erased Dax Novu Mandrakk at the end of the fight), however I think that, imho, there could possible be evidence to claim that both of them could exist in the Overvoid just fine, Dax Novu because, at the end of the day, was a part of the PM itself extended as a probe, TR because we explicitly see it standing in the void.
Finally, to conclude my personal view of the whole matter, to me Mandrakk was erased that way at the end of SB2 because it had to be like that, since the countdown went to zero and one of the two concepts should have been necessarily nullified, being it the negative one (Mandrakk, with the DC which can live on and with the PM which allow the Monitors (actual threat to existence rather than protectors) to disappear (sans Nix obviously)), or the positive one (Thought Robot, with Dax that wins, the DCU erased and nothing but Mandrakk left, with the primordial corruption expanding to the Primal Monitor as a whole).

Just my two cents, of course.
What do you think? I'm really interested in your opinion because it is so rare to find people who actually read the whole story and who know what they are talking about. 🙂

Firstly, the Source Wall has been stated to have existed since time immemorial--which should suffice as incontrovertible proof that it existed when Novu first encountered the pre-crisis multiverse.

But yes, a rudimentary Source Wall was depicted multiple times on-panel in pre-crisis continuity:
http://i.imgur.com/IJWSuCF.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0tENMXZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/D1lbr5G.jpg

...So Morrison's Map still holds true. Novu could have stepped outside of the multiverse/Orrery, but still been within the boundaries of the Source Wall--which would mean he wasn't contacting the Overvoid directly, as it lies beyond the Wall.