Is it moral for God to punish us?

Originally posted by Surtur
For me it is simple. I do not care how powerful you are. Actions speak louder then words. The actions of the biblical God, if real and the bible is accurate, mean he has no real right to judge anyone for anything. You can't commit atrocities and then harp on people who do much lesser ...

I come to the nearly opposite conclusion.

The DEGREE to which God is said to be powerful, logically implies the following, which is mentioned, though not quoted, earlier in that essay Tattoo presented us:

" ... In addition to the fact that God gives life and, thus, has the authority to take it, He also has the power to give it back if He chooses. Throughout the Bible we read of instances in which God chose to give life back to those who were dead, the most thoroughly documented example of that being the resurrection of Jesus Christ (Butt, 2002, 22[2]:9-15). In fact, Abraham alluded to this fact during his preparations to sacrifice Isaac. After traveling close to the place appointed for the sacrifice, Abraham left his servants some distance from the mountain, and said to them: “Stay here with the donkey; the lad and I will go yonder and worship, and we will come back to you” (Genesis 22:5). Notice that Abraham used the plural pronoun “we,” indicating that both he and Isaac would return. The New Testament gives additional insight into Abraham’s thinking. Hebrews 11:17-19 states: “By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten...accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead...” (emp. added). Since God gives physical life to all, and since He can raise people from the dead, then any accusation of injustice that fails to take these facts into account cannot be legitimate ..."

http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=260

Before we even ask this question, we have to first define what is moral and immoral.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Before we even ask this question, we have to first define what is moral and immoral.

Moral is whatever God decides it's moral, like with everything 131

Apparently.

Including infanticide and slavery.

God is a cosmic bully.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
come to the nearly opposite conclusion.

The DEGREE to which God is said to be powerful, logically implies the following, which is mentioned, though not quoted, earlier in that essay Tattoo presented us:

" ... In addition to the fact that God gives life and, thus, has the authority to take it, He also has the power to give it back if He chooses. Throughout the Bible we read of instances in which God chose to give life back to those who were dead, the most thoroughly documented example of that being the resurrection of Jesus Christ (Butt, 2002, 22[2]:9-15). In fact, Abraham alluded to this fact during his preparations to sacrifice Isaac. After traveling close to the place appointed for the sacrifice, Abraham left his servants some distance from the mountain, and said to them: “Stay here with the donkey; the lad and I will go yonder and worship, and we will come back to you” (Genesis 22:5). Notice that Abraham used the plural pronoun “we,” indicating that both he and Isaac would return. The New Testament gives additional insight into Abraham’s thinking. Hebrews 11:17-19 states: “By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten...accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead...” (emp. added). Since God gives physical life to all, and since He can raise people from the dead, then any accusation of injustice that fails to take these facts into account cannot be legitimate ..."

Yep God is a super powered dick. Okay, yes he can bring people back to life if he wants.

Just because you can undo the shitty things you've done on a whim doesn't make you any less shitty.

Originally posted by Surtur
The Jesus thing wasn't even the worst thing God did. Isn't that weird that you can say sacrificing his own son for no reason isn't the worst thing he did? Of course was it really a sacrifice since he knew Jesus would come back? But he still caused temporary pain to his child to make..some kind of point? Or allowed it to happen anyways since he didn't directly do it. When God gets involved the body count tends to be more then just one person.

I don't think it is moral to punish us because God doesn't punish bad people the way we do. Yes we do execute people, but we don't tend to do the kinds of horrific stuff that happen to people who get on God's bad side.

On the other hand people will say morals don't apply to God. He just wants everyone else *but* him to have them apparently. Just for me it is hypocritical for God to expect people to behave a certain way and then on certain occasions he behaves worse then any human that has ever existed.

Seems you are well versed and a decent thinker.

Scriptures do say we are to emulate God, === but only immoral pricks would try.

Regards
DL

Tatoo

"It is clear then, from Provine’s comments, that he believes naturalistic evolution has no way to produce an “ultimate foundation for ethics.”

That is old science. Our morals can be found in our instincts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIc-4h9RIvY

As to God's justice. He doe not have a good sense of one.

His first judgement was to demand a sacrifice to corrupt his usual justice of punishing the guilty an took that bribe and punished the innocent instead.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake

God is an unjust prick.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Is it moral for God to punish us?

God doesn't punish us. Any god that punishes humans is man-made.

You should have included that all the Gods are all man made.

That is a truth that has yet to be refuted.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
So god is basically beyond the concept of morality, but He's not beyond punishing us.

Interesting.

Indeed. As he should not know who to punish for being evil and who to reward for being good.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Stigma
I think you misunderstood the point.

God is the source of morality, at least if we assume morality is objective (which everyone more or less upholds either way)

Eh, no.

Most know that morals are subjective.

There might be the one exception that I have yet to refute to my own satisfaction.

Name a few of your objective moral tenets so that I can see what exactly you speak of please.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Surtur
For me it is simple. I do not care how powerful you are. Actions speak louder then words. The actions of the biblical God, if real and the bible is accurate, mean he has no real right to judge anyone for anything. You can't commit atrocities and then harp on people who do much lesser shit.

I wish Christians would get that instead of them resorting to creating a double moral standard where they condemn men for doing what they praise God for doing.

Like the killing of babies.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Before we even ask this question, we have to first define what is moral and immoral.

Don't you know?

If you do, I will likely agree with your view.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Bentley
Moral is whatever God decides it's moral, like with everything 131

Only if you have your head up his immoral ass.

Remember that this is a God that likes to order the heads of babies smashed onto rocks.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Remember that this is a God that likes to order the heads of babies smashed onto rocks.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
They're a threat to his power.

Just like any who think are.

Hence --------

http://imgur.com/IBroXK9

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
You should have included that all the Gods are all man made.

That is a truth that has yet to be refuted.

Regards
DL

Does that include alien gods?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Does that include alien gods?

Originally posted by Greatest I am
I wish Christians would get that instead of them resorting to creating a double moral standard where they condemn men for doing what they praise God for doing.

Like the killing of babies.

Regards
DL

Yep, what people don't realize is super powers don't make you immune to the rules, to the law. If the law of the land(the cosmic law, that is) is "don't kill" then nah..God doesn't get to kill. Especially when an omnipotent being has so many other options besides murder in makes said omnipotent look like a lazy, stupid, sack of crap for not being able to come up with better ways to handle things.

The first 3 commandments handed down from this abomination pretty much tell us all we need to know about it anyways. He could of saved everyone a lot of time by simplifying it down to what he truly means:

1st commandment-worship me b*tches
2nd commandment-do what I say b*tches
3rd-10th commandments-repeat 1st and 2nd commandments ad nauseam.

Assuming God does indeed exist, why would his laws for us apply to him in the exact way? I mean humans create laws for animals that don't apply to them. For example, if a dog bites a person then that dog is put down. Not the case for humans.

Not the best analogy I know but again assuming then is a God then would the same "logic" apply? Serious question.