Is it moral for God to punish us?

Why not?

We always test each other through different ways and for different reasons.

What is morally wrong with God judging us for our deeds?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

What is morally wrong with God judging us for our deeds?

When you have killed babies and children in order to make a point you really have no place judging anyone for anything. When you send down floods to kill, fire and brimstone to smite, etc. you have no room to judge anyone. God has no room to even judge the worst of the worst.

Or we could do it the other way: turnabout is fair play. God judges us? We judge the abomination right back.

Originally posted by juggerman
Assuming God does indeed exist, why would his laws for us apply to him in the exact way? I mean humans create laws for animals that don't apply to them. For example, if a dog bites a person then that dog is put down. Not the case for humans.

Not the best analogy I know but again assuming then is a God then would the same "logic" apply? Serious question.

Frankly you don't get to say "one set of rules for me, one set for you". Animals can't comprehend things like morality, etc. But since God is the one who gave us these rules of course he can comprehend morality. He chooses not to and it just comes down to "might makes right". God is super awesome and eternal and has super powers so meh the whole morals thing is for lesser beings. For for those without powers? Oh you sure as shit best follow those rules because..well, because might makes right and a powerful entity told you to.

Originally posted by Surtur
Frankly you don't get to say "one set of rules for me, one set for you". Animals can't comprehend things like morality, etc. But since God is the one who gave us these rules of course he can comprehend morality. He chooses not to and it just comes down to "might makes right". God is super awesome and eternal and has super powers so meh the whole morals thing is for lesser beings. For for those without powers? Oh you sure as shit best follow those rules because..well, because might makes right and a powerful entity told you to.

Again if we are assuming God exists as the architect of the universe and life and all that exists; His comprehension of everything would be as far beyond ours as ours is beyond animals. Even farther beyond. So again it would seem similar standards of "this applies to lower beings but not higher ones" would still fit.

We kill animals for many reasons and not only is it legal but in many cases it is moral and just. But of course to the animals we may come off as dicks.

Originally posted by Surtur
When you have killed babies and children in order to make a point you really have no place judging anyone for anything. When you send down floods to kill, fire and brimstone to smite, etc. you have no room to judge anyone. God has no room to even judge the worst of the worst.

Or we could do it the other way: turnabout is fair play. God judges us? We judge the abomination right back.

Suppose that you have established an organization. You may hire people to manage its operations and vice versa. If they will not follow your instructions and advice, you will warn them (initially) and fire them (eventually). Right? Similar principle works at the higher level.

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God have granted us (humans) sufficient cognitive potential to understand the concept of morality (right versus wrong). Moreover, God have shown us the right path (Ten Commandments; Holy Quran and vice versa).

Now, it is up to us to understand the wisdom behind his teachings. If we choose the right path, we will be rewarded. If we choose the wrong path, we will face the consequences.

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However, we cannot judge God from the lens of morality only. There are other ground realities in the picture. For example, some animals kill other animals to ensure their survival (i.e. predators).

Q: So are the predators 'morally wrong' to kill other animals?

A: No! Predators have a role to play in the maintenance of the ecosystems. In their absence, the prey will wreak havoc on the ecosystems at large.

Now, humans are increasing in numbers at a rapid pace. A time will come when humans will posit a grave threat to the well-being of the Earth itself due to overpopulation and other factors.

Q: So what should be the logical response, in your opinion?

A: Reset the ecosystem.

Originally posted by juggerman
Again if we are assuming God exists as the architect of the universe and life and all that exists; His comprehension of everything would be as far beyond ours as ours is beyond animals. Even farther beyond. So again it would seem similar standards of "this applies to lower beings but not higher ones" would still fit.

We kill animals for many reasons and not only is it legal but in many cases it is moral and just. But of course to the animals we may come off as dicks.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Does that include alien gods?

No alien I ever met has claimed to believe in a God. 😉

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Surtur
Yep, what people don't realize is super powers don't make you immune to the rules, to the law. If the law of the land(the cosmic law, that is) is "don't kill" then nah..God doesn't get to kill. Especially when an omnipotent being has so many other options besides murder in makes said omnipotent look like a lazy, stupid, sack of crap for not being able to come up with better ways to handle things.

The first 3 commandments handed down from this abomination pretty much tell us all we need to know about it anyways. He could of saved everyone a lot of time by simplifying it down to what he truly means:

1st commandment-worship me b*tches
2nd commandment-do what I say b*tches
3rd-10th commandments-repeat 1st and 2nd commandments ad nauseam.

Well put.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by juggerman
Assuming God does indeed exist, why would his laws for us apply to him in the exact way? I mean humans create laws for animals that don't apply to them. For example, if a dog bites a person then that dog is put down. Not the case for humans.

Not the best analogy I know but again assuming then is a God then would the same "logic" apply? Serious question.

2 things come to mind.

First, we are in his image so there is no real difference in our psychology. God confirmed that in Eden.

Second, scriptures tell us to emulate God. Be ye as perfect is what we are told to try to achieve.

What God does, we are to do. If he can ignore his laws then so can we if we are to follow his every lead.

You will note that our law of the land applies to our own judges as well as ourselves.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Why not?

We always test each other through different ways and for different reasons.

What is morally wrong with God judging us for our deeds?

Firstly. He is not around to clarify any of his laws for us and we could be doing wrong without even knowing it.

Secondly, the God of scriptures showed that he can be bribed by sacrifices and ransoms and that he punishes the innocent instead off the guilty which is counter to any moral law.

IOW. He is not worthy to judge us because his morals are worse than ours.

The immoral a hole even murdered Kind David's baby after torturing it for 6 days just because he was angry with David.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Now, humans are increasing in numbers at a rapid pace. A time will come when humans will posit a grave threat to the well-being of the Earth itself due to overpopulation and other factors.

Q: So what should be the logical response, in your opinion?

A: Reset the ecosystem.

👆

We will do what we have always loved to do. War.

If you read a bit of ancient history, at the times just before Napoleon for instance, various countries and counties used to go to war strictly for spoils and well as to just rid the towns and villages of their excess of young men who were just a pain in the rump to authorities because of their rowdy-nous and trouble making.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIQynsWpBpQ

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
2 things come to mind.

First, we are in his image so there is no real difference in our psychology. God confirmed that in Eden.

Second, scriptures tell us to emulate God. Be ye as perfect is what we are told to try to achieve.

What God does, we are to do. If he can ignore his laws then so can we if we are to follow his every lead.

You will note that our law of the land applies to our own judges as well as ourselves.

Regards
DL

Good points.

I guess I'd counter with examples of adults vs children. Adults are allowed to do many things children aren't while there isn't much of a difference between the two besides experience and knowledge. Children aren't allowed to drive, drink, smoke, vote, work, stay up late, talk back, interrupt, and a host of other things that you wouldn't bat an eye at if an adult did.

God would obviously be the adult and we the children in this scenario. We can't expect to "do what God can do" if we lack the understanding behind it that He has. We would have less knowledge compared to Him than children have compared to their own parents. The rules would be in place for a reason and that reason is most likely to protect us

Originally posted by juggerman
Good points.

I guess I'd counter with examples of adults vs children. Adults are allowed to do many things children aren't while there isn't much of a difference between the two besides experience and knowledge. Children aren't allowed to drive, drink, smoke, vote, work, stay up late, talk back, interrupt, and a host of other things that you wouldn't bat an eye at if an adult did.

God would obviously be the adult and we the children in this scenario. We can't expect to "do what God can do" if we lack the understanding behind it that He has. We would have less knowledge compared to Him than children have compared to their own parents. The rules would be in place for a reason and that reason is most likely to protect us

Protect adults forever and they never grow up. The same applies to children.

Training children is one thing. In Eden, God did not want to train A & E. God wanted them mentally blind and stupid which is what they were before they ate of the tree of knowledge.

That is like a parent forbidding his child from going to school.

Only a really incompetent parent punishes children for learning and educating themselves.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Protect adults forever and they never grow up. The same applies to children.

Training children is one thing. In Eden, God did not want to train A & E. God wanted them mentally blind and stupid which is what they were before they ate of the tree of knowledge.

That is like a parent forbidding his child from going to school.

Only a really incompetent parent punishes children for learning and educating themselves.

Regards
DL

They were punished as a child would be if they took their father's keys and drove his car.

Originally posted by juggerman
They were punished as a child would be if they took their father's keys and drove his car.

Really!

You would lock away what they would need, the tree of life in this case, and just let them die the way God let A & E die.

That is murder by abuse and neglect but if you think your kids would deserve death then you must be a Christian.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Really!

You would lock away what they would need, the tree of life in this case, and just let them die the way God let A & E die.

That is murder by abuse and neglect but if you think your kids would deserve death then you must be a Christian.

Regards
DL

What a false equivalency! Guess that's what it takes to get your point across.

Killing someone and allowing them to die are completely different things. For example you have an alcoholic that may need a new liver to survive but said alcoholic does not follow the rules of donation and continues to drink. Now he is off the list and will eventually die.

If you consider that murder then you might just be a fool

But the alcoholic would have deserved to be allowed to die due to his behavior. He brought that upon himself. There are people out there who desperately need new livers and we can't have someone who would just abuse the new liver.

What behavior did A&E do that made it so that they should just be allowed to die?

Originally posted by Surtur
But the alcoholic would have deserved to be allowed to die due to his behavior. He brought that upon himself. There are people out there who desperately need new livers and we can't have someone who would just abuse the new liver.

What behavior did A&E do that made it so that they should just be allowed to die?

Sin

I'm not saying that's a good enough reason for say you or I, but if we are assuming this is what took place then sin would have been the reason. God is said to hate sin and that was the deal breaker. God did not kill them but they couldn't remain in the garden with sin

Their "sin" was not wanting to be ignorant as f*ck for the rest of their lives. God couldn't handle that. I wonder why? Why did he want to keep these people naked and stupid?

We know the answer, and it's the same reason the very first commandment is "you better not f*cking worship anyone else". Because he's an arrogant douche.

Originally posted by Greatest I am

First, we are in his image so there is no real difference in our psychology. God confirmed that in Eden.

Regards
DL

This doesn't follow. Via reasoning of THAT sort, along with its various corrolaries, there is no real difference in the psychology of you, Jeffrey Dahmer, or an expertly carved puppet.

Originally posted by Surtur
Their "sin" was not wanting to be ignorant as f*ck for the rest of their lives. God couldn't handle that. I wonder why? Why did he want to keep these people naked and stupid?

We know the answer, and it's the same reason the very first commandment is "you better not f*cking worship anyone else". Because he's an arrogant douche.

They weren't stupid. They just didn't know evil.

If God created us, why would he want us giving credit to something else? I'm sure you wouldn't want your kids calling random people mom/dad right?

Of course, but in a way proportional to our wrongdoing, not eternal suffering.