Gun control in America

**** Americans liking their guns.

Originally posted by Surtur
It's not the criminals that would worry me. I mean not that it wouldn't be a problem, but if they really banned guns then all these nutjobs would possibly come out of the woodwork. It'd be the final sign to them that the country has "gone to hell" and yep it is pretty much people in rural areas.

I'm not saying anything would be guaranteed to happen, just that the chances something would aren't so low that I'd rather not find out.

The thing is, as-is.... that stuff already happens. Look at the number of shootings.

And this kind of thing has been implemented in other countries not all that dissimilar from the US. Things didn't explode.

Things will when they try to take mine.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]Things will when they try to take mine. [/B]

One, I doubt you actually would push comes to shove.

Two, the most common way of handling this kind of thing is... buyback.

I.e. you'd certainly object to someone just coming in and taking your guns, but someone putting a pile of cash in front of you for your guns...? I bet your level of objection would shrink significantly.

Also, like most countries, there will almost certainly be ways to get gun licenses, if more limited and with more demonstrated need, so you could also have the route of spending the effort to get one of those.

One of the things here is when people hear 'gun control,' they think "people marching in and grabbing all the guns from people's hands," which is not how it works.

Also, it helps to be reminded that the purpose of this is to prevent people from getting shot. Can you honestly say your guns matter more to you than people dying?

No. I still have both my balls.

1) Gun Shop will be held accountable for guns they have sold that's been used in a crime.

2) Guns will be installed with a GPS. Like cell phones & vehicles.

3) Guns will only be sold with the purchase (& professional installation) of a gun safe.

4) Random checks by police on licensed gun-owners to ensure their firearms are properly secured & not missing.

5) Gun shops will no longer sell ammunition. Ammunition will be sold at police stations.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]No. I still have both my balls. [/B]

And yet you're compensating your manhood with a gun.

Originally posted by Surtur
But this is the same excuse people always say.

It's not an excuse. It's the reality. Gang violence has a lot of exposure, it's talked about a lot, it is targeted in a myriad of ways, but because of political reasons some ways aren't tried (ending the war on drugs, gun control, increased spending in education in these areas, etc.).

People just don't like when it is always brought up to deflect from cops disproportionately killing black people.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
And yet you're compensating your manhood with a gun.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It's not an excuse. It's the reality. Gang violence has a lot of exposure, it's talked about a lot, it is targeted in a myriad of ways, but because of political reasons some ways aren't tried (ending the war on drugs, gun control, increased spending in education in these areas, etc.).

People just don't like when it is always brought up to deflect from cops disproportionately killing black people.

But it's brought up in stuff with cops because the other stuff doesn't get as much attention. Where is Al Shaprton? Chicago is out of control and it's not talked about as much. If a white cop shoots a black guy in the face here then will we get more attention?

I see it literally every single day. We don't get the huge crowds of BLM's or the big name black leaders showing up. We don't have Obama saying shit about it that I can recall either. People don't riot even though the people constantly go unpunished.

Originally posted by Surtur
But it's brought up in stuff with cops because the other stuff doesn't get as much attention. Where is Al Shaprton? Chicago is out of control and it's not talked about as much. If a white cop shoots a black guy in the face here then will we get more attention?

I see it literally every single day. We don't get the huge crowds of BLM's or the big name black leaders showing up. We don't have Obama saying shit about it that I can recall either. People don't riot even though the people constantly go unpunished.

No, you bring it up in cop threads because you've bought into this lie, that racists use to divert attention from the very real problem of racial police brutality.

What would riots accomplish? You think a riot would make the gangs go "Oh yeah, our bad, we'll be better now"?

It's brought up because it doesn't get the attention the other stories do. Constantly. Black lives matter when killed by white cops. Not when anything else happens.

It's out of control and we turn a blind eye in comparison to the cop things. Nobody says cops aren't a problem. But they are by far not the biggest.

Then if you talk about it you are a racist. I'll watch my city get torn apart while you worry about cops.

Originally posted by Surtur
It's brought up because it doesn't get the attention the other stories do. Constantly. Black lives matter when killed by white cops. Not when anything else happens.

It's out of control and we turn a blind eye in comparison to the cop things. Nobody says cops aren't a problem. But they are by far not the biggest.

Then if you talk about it you are a racist.

No, you just think that. For one it gets brought up by people like you every time a black person is killed by police, so we basically talk about it constantly.

We don't turn a blind eye, we spend insane amounts of money to combat the issue.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think you are incorrect about this. There's nothing in the constitution that gives the first ten amendments special protection, as such they can be altered with subsequent amendments like any other.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Please provide actual evidence of the special protection of the first ten amendments from alteration.

technically any amendment can be undone

i guess i got confused cause in school they always phrased it as "inalieble rights from god" that the state is just respecting... so how are they inalieable if they can be changed? why even bother?

but yea i was wrong about the bill of rights being entrenched. so i guess the reality is that technically you can change the bill of rights but you will have to have a lot of political will to do so... which isn't going to happen for guns in america so once again trying to ban them outright is probably a lost cause imo. it might quite simply be for cultural reasons... but hey, you support democracy, right? here's what you get. a bunch of mouth breathers with their lazy hand on the wheel.

We talk about it constantly here. I'm talking about in the media overall. It doesn't get the attention the other stuff does. I said we turn a blind eye in comparison. Not that we do overall.

It's there, we toss some money at it, but it doesn't get the national uproar the other stuff does. And why? Oh, it's not an easy fix.

Originally posted by Surtur
We talk about it constantly here. I'm talking about in the media overall. It doesn't get the attention the other stuff does. I said we turn a blind eye in comparison. Not that we do overall.

It's there, we toss some money at it, but it doesn't get the national uproar the other stuff does. And why? Oh, it's not an easy fix.

Yeah, but you also forget that the reason white cops shooting black kids gets a lot of attention by the media is because it is a problem that isn't being addressed.

The other issues is addressed by politics, lots of money is spent, everyone is aware of it, everyone is on the same page.

It's like going into a briefing about how to avoid being shot in a warzone and interjecting "I think we should take the time to talk about breathing, if you don't breathe you die, and that's a huge issue that no one ever talks about, so please remember to breathe" ...everyone's already on the same page, everyone does their best to breathe...

Originally posted by red g jacks
so i googled and yea i guess i was wrong about the bill of rights can't be changed

technically any amendment can be undone

i guess i got confused cause in school they always phrased it as "inalieble rights from god" that the state is just respecting... so how are they inalieable if they can be changed? why even bother?

but yea i was wrong about the bill of rights being entrenched. so i guess the reality is that technically you can change the bill of rights but you will have to have a lot of political will to do so... which isn't going to happen for guns in america so once again trying to ban them outright is probably a lost cause imo. it might quite simply be for cultural reasons... but hey, you support democracy, right? here's what you get. a bunch of mouth breathers with their lazy hand on the wheel.

I think the misunderstanding comes from the Declaration of Independence. Which does talk about unalienable rights.

At any rate, I don't think an outright ban is what most people advocate for anyways. And the Supreme Court has already shown that the 2nd amendment is not absolute, and can be limited. A "drivers license" for guns, a ban on certain types of weapons, as well as a federal register of guns, is perfectly in line with 2nd Amendment requirements.

They are changeable because we have people in this country that don't like people to have rights.

**cough cough liberal progressives cough cough**

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]They are changeable because we have people in this country that don't like people to have rights.

**cough cough liberal progressives cough cough** [/B]

They are changeable because the people who wrote it made them in that way. But you're probably right, the founding fathers were just stupid liberals, why don't you go piss on a statue of Washington to make your point.

Originally posted by Bardock42
At any rate, I don't think an outright ban is what most people advocate for anyways.

like i said we have to be realistic and address the real problem, which is the black market for guns. i really think we should drop all the other baggage cause it just serves as a platform for the NRA to do their thing. so when you say ban certain types of guns for example... i don't see why. it wouldn't change a thing. you can do a mass shooting with pistols just as easily... see the virginia tech shooter. so that angle is pointless to me.

what i think we really need is a system of accountability that locks a person's identity with the gun they purchase. that is what is making murder so easy in the states... most of the guns on the black market are put there by straw purchases... without that you could identify a killer based on the forensics of the fingerprint the gun leaves on the bullet, and if that's linked to someone's name who is then held accountable...guns from legal markets will become a lot harder to come by.