The Matrix probably spans the globe. How does that fit with 6 billion people here, 250.000 in the real world and not accepting the programs.
This version of the Matrix is about 100 years old, at least Morpheus says so in his speech. It started with 24 people, the previous One and 23 he chose from the Matrix. The “first minds that were liberated”. I have no clue how fast humans COULD procreate, but given 8 men and 16 women to start with, lets just be large and say 1000. Max. That means that most of the 250.000 in Zion are unplugged humans. The 0.1 percent that does not accept the program. So if 0,1 % is 250.000, then the whole number is 250 million people in pods.
Leaving out 5,75 billion not accounted for. So are the rest just programs? Someone somewhere in another thread dealing with this subject pointed out, that none of us knows 6 billion people. There could be a lot of programs running around. The drug-store manager, the cab-driver, your boss, the principal, the tax-office employees 😄 Everything that is part of the system, of control, could basically be programs. Not like the agents, but just programs doing what they’re supposed to.
Including me!
You are all totally over analyzing this. First off, it's really a meaningless fact but for the sake of argument...
In the first matrix movie, Agent Smith makes a comment to Morpheous "Billions of people living out their lives... oblivious..."
This tells me that the matrix is made of millions of people (probably the 6 billion that live on earth now). It doesn't make much sense that the machines would kill off almost all the humans and leave a few million for power sources alone. As to the reference to the 1% who don't accept the matrix, it's probably just an estimation to show that there are a small number of people who refuse the programming. It's kind of like saying "I'm 99% done with my work": you could be close to 97% or 99.021342937% or something. IT'S AN ESTIMATION. It's easier to say 1% than some astronomically small number.
As for why the rebels always appear to jack into New York (and I'm assuming it's New York for lots of reasons, like the badges on the cops, the fact that no other American city has as many buildings or dirty alley ways or hackers), I guess they just do and we have to accept that.
Actually it isn't New York City. It's a city but not NYC. In reality (outside of the movie itself) this is either Sidney or Melbourne, or some other big Australian city. There were no landmarks or anything else indicating this is NYC.
Anyway I would say the Matrix itself is a global entity. It sits on all the continents of Earth. Smith didn't give an exact number of humans hooked into the system even though he said billions. The number may be greater than 6 billion because the system itself is hundreds of years old. Possibly 200. Anyway, 6 billion or not, the system started out with just the remnant of humanity to start and rapidly multiplied the needed human batteries in a short period of time. An extremely sophisticated machine.
Dexx said:
well..i should think that the program renders the whole planet...in order for them to live questionless. let's say outer space is out of their tech possibilities.
How so? If the whole thing is a “holdeck”, then you could generate an entire trip to the Moon and back (or any other planet) just as easy as you could the single city.
Zimbo said:
I think life would be different in the matrix if there would be only one town so I think its more than that, in the first matrix when neo came to work his boss said they had one of the most respectible companies in the world.
I agree. Have you seen Dark City? [somewhat analogous to “The Matrix”]. I think if the Matrix was only meant to be one city that would have been made very clear. Also (as was the case in Dark City) restricting the Matrix world to a single city would create an unnecessary anomaly that would only cause more people to discover the true nature of the Matrix.
If the whole thing is simply an illusion, then it isn’t any harder to model the entire Earth (the entire Universe) than it is to model a single city.
I think Ush is right....but this thought leads me to another...one of the ideas behind quantom physics is that if no one is oberving a certain object, it does not exist...now would this be true for the matrix? if, for example, no one is observing a car parked on the street, would the mainframe computer running the matrix still process the code that makes the car "exist" or would it not bother to?
The Matrix doesn’t actually generate a hologram does it? It seems to me that all the Matrix is doing is generating inputs for the individual consciousnesses hooked up to it. Ergo if there is no one to receive the inputs (no one observing the parked car) then there is no one receiving inputs from the matrix about the parked car.
So in a sense the parked car doesn’t exist when no one is looking at it.
… which is EXACTLY what modern physics says about any object. (i.e. Neils Bohr and the Copenhagen interpretation of QM)
Ushgaraksaid:
No it doesn't. Modern physics only talks about an objects PROBABILITY of being somehwere, not its non-existence. And it is not when no-one is looking at it, it is when it is unobserved, which in scientific terms is VERY different. My physics Masters Degree friend is giving me this....
I can’t find the quote at the moment, but if you are familiar with the Double slit experiment I am sure that you know that the particle only picks a slit when it is being observed. This led Neils Bohr to make the comment (paraphrasing) Reality doesn’t exist unless someone is looking.
This is the basis for the Copenhagen interpretation of Quantum mechanics and the very foundation of modern physics.
In terms of the Matrix: the “master computer” only transmits outputs (to be received as inputs) to individual nodes (human consciousnesses hooked up to the system). If there is no node (consciousness) then there is no need to generate any output, because there is nothing to receive it.
Yes, 'picks a slit', as in beforehand we do not know what slit it picks, hence me talking of PROBABILITY, not existence.
And you must not confuse 'observes' with 'someone looking at it'. 'Reality observing' means that it is somewhay interacting with the universe. The car that no-one is looking at is still being 'observed' because it is interacting with the ground it rests on, the dust that blows against it, the air it obstructs and the countless amount of light it is reflecting.
This is why Schroedinger's cat was in a box that was sealed off from the rest of the universe. That was the only way it could be 'unobserved'.
So you are only really confirming what I say.
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Originally posted by maul's woman
Actually it isn't New York City. It's a city but not NYC. In reality (outside of the movie itself) this is either Sidney or Melbourne, or some other big Australian city. There were no landmarks or anything else indicating this is NYC.Anyway I would say the Matrix itself is a global entity. It sits on all the continents of Earth. Smith didn't give an exact number of humans hooked into the system even though he said billions. The number may be greater than 6 billion because the system itself is hundreds of years old. Possibly 200. Anyway, 6 billion or not, the system started out with just the remnant of humanity to start and rapidly multiplied the needed human batteries in a short period of time. An extremely sophisticated machine.
Remember when Morph showed the city on the TV as Neo Knows. It was NY coz i saw the Twin Towers in a close-up. They he showed the world as it now and there were the Twin Towers broken.
Actually it doesn't matter. The human "believes" what it sees as being real. So the System itself can sit on all seven continents, but all the incarcerated humans see themselves as living and breathing in this one particular city. The A.I. doesn't have to tell the human mind that there are other satellite cores around the planet. It's methods are "perfection". To keep the billions subjugated and their bodies healthy and functional it creates this multidimensional delusion of dreams and worlds within dreams and worlds.
Ushgarak said:
Yes, 'picks a slit', as in beforehand we do not know what slit it picks, hence me talking of PROBABILITY, not existence.And you must not confuse 'observes' with 'someone looking at it'. 'Reality observing' means that it is someway interacting with the universe.
But until a consciousness perceives it, then how does a consciousness know that the object is interacting with anything at all?
In the double slit, if there is no observer (or observing device) then the photon’s actions cannot be determined (i.e. no “choice” is even made).
The car that no-one is looking at is still being 'observed' because it is interacting with the ground it rests on, the dust that blows against it, the air it obstructs and the countless amount of light it is reflecting.
When you play a computer game, are things not on the screen interacting with the game reality, or are all the interactions simply computed when you move within viewing range?
In other words, while you are reading this post, are the building and objects in your copy of QUAKE (computer game) growing old, collecting dust, being rained on, etc? I’d say that nothing happens in the QUAKE-world until you turn on the computer and launch the game. In short – your car in QUAKE only exist when you are playing QUAKE.
This is why Schroedinger's cat was in a box that was sealed off from the rest of the universe. That was the only way it could be 'unobserved'.So you are only really confirming what I say.
If that is the case, then perhaps you can show us your dead-alive Cat?
It doesn't matter. The A.I. made it so that all the minds absolutely believe what they see is real. The absolute real world exists regardless of our individual perceptions. The universe exists and doesn't need the human mind to make it substantial. When humans no longer exists the universe will still be substantial. It is never a matter of biological perception.
Maul’s Woman Said:
It doesn't matter. The A.I. made it so that all the minds absolutely believe what they see is real. The absolute real world exists regardless of our individual perceptions. The universe exists and doesn't need the human mind to make it substantial. When humans no longer exists the universe will still be substantial. It is never a matter of biological perception.
How do you know that for certain?
In other words, when you “die” how do you know it is You that will cease to exist while the universe persist, and not that the universe will cease to exist around you, while you persist?
Or put another way, in what objective manner can an unobserved universe be said to exist in reality?
Perhaps I am keeping a miniature universe locked up in my desk drawer? Are you prepared to concede that my desk-universe exists objectively?