trav6612 said:
What is reality though? Who is to say that a triangle is three sided? It is what we have been told, but does that make it true? Yes it all people constitute it as so, but if someone else obsevers something different, does that make it less of a reality? REality is always being replaced by something higher, ie. newton's lae, theory of relativity.
In our current (arbitrarily defined) system of geometry a triangle is defined as having 3-sides, so any 4-sided figure could not possibly be a triangle, it would be a rectangle.
Another example of logical inconsistency would be, can the programmer of QUAKE (computer game) create a Quake-rock so big that even he can’t lift it. (answer: NO, such a thing is logically inconsistent)
As far as Relativity to Newtonian mechanics, remember that Relativity didn’t invalidate Newton, it just amended it (refined Newtonian mechanics). You can think of Newtonian mechanics as one level of the Matrix, and relativity as another higher level of the Matrix.
Maul’s Woman said:
But in terms of the MATRIX I used that logic to explain some of the things the system was doing to the human subjects. After 200 years such a system would have incredible scientific knowledge, but decided to keep its human subjects at a certain level. For it's own safety?
Control is really about restricting access to information so what you say makes perfect sense to me.
It is control, but it is also a symbiotic relationship. The A.I. has become one with its human subjects and the humans with the A.I. without them even realizing that it is what the A.I. did. In a way the great machine is biomechanical.
The 4 dimensional triangle wouldn't be a rectangle. It is still a triangle but the 4th dimensional direction cannot be seen by us who are 3 dimension creatures.
Maul’s Woman said:
It is control, but it is also a symbiotic relationship. The A.I. has become one with its human subjects and the humans with the A.I. without them even realizing that it is what the A.I. did. In a way the great machine is biomechanical.
Yeah, I think that is entirely consistent with the Councilors speech on the engineering level as well.
The 4 dimensional triangle wouldn't be a rectangle. It is still a triangle but the 4th dimensional direction cannot be seen by us who are 3 dimension creatures.
Yes, but by that logic couldn’t you say that ALL GEOMETRIC figures (regardless of their apparent # of sides) are really triangles or rectangles in “higher or lower dimensions”?
… and as the saying goes: that which explains to much, explains nothing at all.
trav6612 said:
I would agree that control is restricting access, so when Neo is realizing what the Matrix is, does that mean the machines are losing more and control of him?
I don’t know …
As my children grow older and become more independent I may be “losing some control” over them, but I cannot help but feel I am somehow becoming more “powerful” as a direct result … ?
yerssot said:
anyone read the title "how big is the matrix?"
and then answered:
this big!
yet?
The debate seems to center on whether or not the A.I. (matrix generator) is generating an entire virtual planet (virtual universe), or just one large city. For the sake of consistency my money is on an entire virtual universe. (i.e. you could still fly a rocket to the moon within the matrix).
Maul’s woman said:
The machine is not losing control of him, it is grooming him for a higher purpose within itself.
That is entirely consistent with the Architect speech, and the 5 previous versions.
Well Serpent, no. The dimensional reference will determine the description of the geometrical shape. One dimension will be only one side and no depth perception. Two dimensions things change, but there is no depth perception. When you get to three dimensions there is depth perception. Kinda like stereo vision.
Yes, I would say that the Matrix is "universe" oriented. It has created its own universe for the purpose of the humans and human perceptions. Has it actually reached into real space and space exploration? That has not be mentioned and in the case of what it is doing, it would not be important. The A.I. and the Matrix system is basically geocentric and geo-oriented above and below the surface.
Maul’s Woman said:
Yes, I would say that the Matrix is "universe" oriented. It has created its own universe for the purpose of the humans and human perceptions. Has it actually reached into real space and space exploration? That has not be mentioned and in the case of what it is doing, it would not be important. The A.I. and the Matrix system is basically geocentric and geo-oriented above and below the surface.
I got the distinct impression from the first film that Mr. Anderson lived in the same universe on the same planet that we do. In other words, the 1968 Moon launch occurred, as did the Voyager flights, etc. etc.
I don’t see anything inconsistent with this. I don’t see that it is beyond the “Matrix’s” scope, and I think it grounds the movie in reality for the viewer.
I think that there are a LOT of people who either believe this story is more fact than fiction, or at least ponder the possibility.
It is a very great possibility. But we don't have that sense that something is "wrong" about the world. Not like in the MATRIX. I have sometimes thought there is something very very wrong with world governments and that humanity is being played against itself by outside forces. I don't care HOW outside, or WHERE outside is, but that it is there. Our situations are not very logical, and sometimes nonhumanly illogical. Like someone flips a switch and human governments and the people themselves act "psychotic" and destructive on a massive scale. I use Bush as such a incident... here you have one man who have successfully turned the world on its ear and no one has done anything about it. Nor can anyone do anything about it. Bush has also robbed the country blind and set on self destruct mode that will affect the U.S. negatively for the next 30 to 50 years. But no one here seems to understand except for a few and the rest are either oblivious or afraid. But the people in Europe, Asia, Latin America and Africa does see the problem. That is only an example. The same is for THE MATRIX... the people living in the Matrix system sees nothing wrong except for a small minority and they are the ones fighting the system... fighting the dragon. Unknown to them... they are part of the dragon and one with it. Biomechanical... Symbiosis.
Maul’s Woman said:
It is a very great possibility. But we don't have that sense that something is "wrong" about the world. Not like in the MATRIX.
Perhaps you waiting for something … ?
Your next “life” perhaps? (wink)
I have sometimes thought there is something very very wrong with world governments and that humanity is being played against itself by outside forces. I don't care HOW outside, or WHERE outside is, but that it is there. Our situations are not very logical, and sometimes nonhumanly illogical. Like someone flips a switch and human governments and the people themselves act "psychotic" and destructive on a massive scale. I use Bush as such a incident... here you have one man who have successfully turned the world on its ear and no one has done anything about it. Nor can anyone do anything about it. Bush has also robbed the country blind and set on self destruct mode that will affect the U.S. negatively for the next 30 to 50 years. But no one here seems to understand except for a few and the rest are either oblivious or afraid. But the people in Europe, Asia, Latin America and Africa does see the problem. That is only an example.
Perhaps, but in my mind the problem has more to do with people who have been convinced into believing that crashing airplanes into office buildings is the most expeditious method for getting laid (72 dark-eyed virgins [rolleyes]. Personally I am with Miller on this one … I mean after about 10 virgins (or 1) most men are going to be wanting a professional – someone who knows what the hell they are doing).
The same is for THE MATRIX... the people living in the Matrix system sees nothing wrong except for a small minority and they are the ones fighting the system... fighting the dragon. Unknown to them... they are part of the dragon and one with it. Biomechanical... Symbiosis.
You remind me of someone I know.
So you are suggesting conflict is the root of all evil? (i.e. boys will be boys)
Perhaps … ? But perhaps there is a bit more to it than that … ?
Boys will be boys is a cultural concept and prejudice which has caused humanity more trouble than good.
The true reason for the allowance of the mass murder of 3,000 people on U.S. soil by foreigners hijacking commercial airliners has dogged me for a long time. I lost friends there. But I won't go into that, nor the subject of the hijacking. I will say that many people believe that there are powers inscrutable that are moving among us and orchestrating alot of what is going on in the world... the wholesale slaughter of human life and the ecology of the earth. This is something that can never be proved or brought to the light of day, just like in the MATRIX. Maybe this is what the Wachowski's are doing in their movie. This is part of the premise of their story.
What is going on in our world is BIG, just like in the MATRIX. The Matrix system is BIG... GLOBAL... inscrutable to the billions of humans living in it. Our world is the same... above and below the surface.
Maul’s Woman said:
Boys will be boys is a cultural concept and prejudice which has caused humanity more trouble than good.
Ohhh I think it is essentially true, but I agree that the subject (evil/violence) is FAR more complicated than that.
The true reason for the allowance of the mass murder of 3,000 people on U.S. soil by foreigners hijacking commercial airliners has dogged me for a long time. I lost friends there. But I won't go into that, nor the subject of the hijacking. I will say that many people believe that there are powers inscrutable that are moving among us and orchestrating alot of what is going on in the world...
Yes … Fate!
This is something that can never be proved or brought to the light of day, just like in the MATRIX.
I disagree with you there.
In fact, many people are claiming that it will all be apparent by 2012 (not that I am one of them).
Maybe this is what the Wachowski's are doing in their movie. This is part of the premise of their story.
Most definitely.
What is going on in our world is BIG, just like in the MATRIX. The Matrix system is BIG... GLOBAL... inscrutable to the billions of humans living in it. Our world is the same... above and below the surface.
Just as there are “Matrices” “above” and “below” the one we find ourselves in now. In fact, some people call the Matrix directly below this one Hell (or the Abyss), and call the one above Heaven.
???Shrug???
to Serpent
The Oracle... just think about it. "hey people. it's not in the film, it's for real. a message. listen to me. all will end in 2012 so go and pack for yourself. i'm not joking... really... hey... people... what's the wrong with you". Do you think that this is useful? That people would take it seriously? I hardly beleive. it's not a comfortable theory. people would laugh. anyway, do you know any women who speaks the truth directly?
remember Noe (/Neo/One ?) have a nice day
Could it be that the people who were left from fighting the war are the only ones plugged into the matrix? Alot of people died in the war against the machines and I believe it (the war) covered the globe. So my thoughts are only the people that didn't die in the war and the ones being born now are connected to the Matrix.
Any thoughts?