hmm, bc is nothing close to a novice though and i'm pretty sure hawk has super speed. dinah's been part of both the jla and the jsa and held her own against the league-level threats. gorgon is def faster, but tactically speaking? i wouldn't say he's above these girls much, if at all. given starting distance and basic knowledge, her cry hits before he reaches them. once they scatter it becomes much more difficult for him. he'd beat them 1 on 1, but i'd give the 3 of them the win much more often than not against him. take her cry away and he wins this. i'd had more respect for him when he first came on the scene.
Originally posted by leonidas
how is he dealing with the cry again....? not sure how he's winning this tbh.http://i.imgur.com/ATUXvZK.jpg
that's mammoth and hawk. mammoth is at least in ben's class, and hawk is a beast... here she takes out giganta:
http://i.imgur.com/fL0vNFV.jpg
and even frickin amazo:
http://i.imgur.com/7S6lQD6.jpg
he's good, but cass and shiva are NOT chumps--nor is canary of course, even without the cry. gorgon also has some less, than awesome showings, as most know. team should kill him dead almost every time.
No one's calling them chumps. Losing to Spidey level doesn't make you a chump, it makes you a street leveler in all around physical averages.. Which Canary and Shiva are, if on the very upper limit of street.
So which lesser showings?
Struggling with Phobos? Maybe.. I don't really know enough about the character to judge. But some of Gorgon's better feats come from the story line, like "disarming" YoYo mid sprint, and tanking a giant foot through a rock surface..
He h trouble with Lord Rand. Personally, I'd consider the fact it was a competition a super high end showing for Gorgon. 😛
And Shang Chi also held his own.. barely. Before getting ultimately crushed.
Maybe Gorgon has worse showings out there by now, but he's no one hit wonder. His feats are more extensive and consistant then Black Tarantula or Master Izo, both who have the feats to handle just about any street..
Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
I think Phobos beat Ares, IIRC, the reason Grasscutter was red was because Phobos ran it through his dad's chest.
You might be right, been too long since I've read that fight.
He was blatantly superhuman and very skilled; Shishido still managed to beat him even after his Godkiller got broken.
his dark avengers showings were not great, for sure, compared to his early showings of effortlessly taking out logan and elektra like they were 2nd graders. the fist showing was certainly not impressive given those early showings, nor was the shang showing. all those showings--looking at the speed and sill used in those fights--don't place him that far outside this trio. bats could certainly hang with fist or shang in h2h which means shiva, cass and even bc can come pretty damn close as well. i agree that he wins though due to speed if the cry is left out. it wouldn't be impossible i suspect though, to find some showings from these 3 that would throw some possible doubt on that belief however.
Originally posted by leonidas
his dark avengers showings were not great, for sure, compared to his early showings of effortlessly taking out logan and elektra like they were 2nd graders. the fist showing was certainly not impressive given those early showings, nor was the shang showing. all those showings--looking at the speed and sill used in those fights--don't place him that far outside this trio. bats could certainly hang with fist or shang in h2h which means shiva, cass and even bc can come pretty damn close as well. i agree that he wins though due to speed if the cry is left out. it wouldn't be impossible i suspect though, to find some showings from these 3 that would throw some possible doubt on that belief however.
Shang Chi had 2 or 3 amps when he fought Gorgon, and he still got crushed.
Yeah, it wasn't 'standard' Shang. Didn't he crush a Builder robot with ease with the same upgrades?
Iron Fist was about to get offed, if not for Daredevil. Gorgon also was kinda forced then to emulate Wolverine's fighting style, claws and all. Anyway, it's Bendis' specialty to make the villains job even harder than usual. All of the so-called "New Dark Avengers" were fodder. Sans maybe Superia. Skaar doesn't count since he was undercover, working for Avengers... hell, he still jobbed to Fist.
Anyway, CC - at its peak power - is team's only chance. A cheap win, but a win.
DC fans also forget that pre-reboot feats got flushed down the toilet. There is a Nu Canary 😛 Does she have any good CC feats?
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah, it wasn't 'standard' Shang. Didn't he crush a Builder robot with ease with the same upgrades?Iron Fist was about to get offed, if not for Daredevil. Gorgon also was kinda forced then to emulate Wolverine's fighting style, claws and all. Anyway, it's Bendis' specialty to make the villains job even harder than usual. All of the so-called "New Dark Avengers" were fodder. Sans maybe Superia. Skaar doesn't count since he was undercover, working for Avengers... hell, he still jobbed to Fist.
Anyway, CC - at its peak power - is team's only chance. A cheap win, but a win.
DC fans also forget that pre-reboot feats got flushed down the toilet. There is a Nu Canary 😛 Does she have any good CC feats?
Most DEFINITELY.
She's a little more versatile now. For instance, she can fly just like Banshee.
She also made Mr. Majestic bleed. The SAME Majestic who easily tanked a NUKE.
And I believe she destroyed a small island, but I'll have to double check that.
In terms of durability, Majestic>>Gorgon. If Majestic had a hard time tanking her scream, Gorgon certainly will. 👆
Edit: Actually, Canary had her boyfriend's help, but it was still impressive, nonetheless.
Originally posted by leonidas
his dark avengers showings were not great, for sure, compared to his early showings of effortlessly taking out logan and elektra like they were 2nd graders. the fist showing was certainly not impressive given those early showings, nor was the shang showing. all those showings--looking at the speed and sill used in those fights--don't place him that far outside this trio. bats could certainly hang with fist or shang in h2h which means shiva, cass and even bc can come pretty damn close as well. i agree that he wins though due to speed if the cry is left out. it wouldn't be impossible i suspect though, to find some showings from these 3 that would throw some possible doubt on that belief however.
Fist would beat Bats rather easily.
"No fanboy", his speed and striking feats put him closer to Spidey level then Batman's. And you don't think Batman could hold his own with Parker...
....do you?
