Rogers, Bucky, Khan vs Sideous

Originally posted by Utrigita
He force pushed Maul and Savage and pinned them against the wall without showing any problems what so ever doing so, and beforehand he choked two guards (Mandalorians no less) without even seeing them while lifting them into the air. Later we see him ragdolling Maul lifting him up and throwing him against the wall again with ease. We have seen Dooku, who is inferior to Sidious blasting three opponents with lightning, pinning each of them in mid air, before throwing them through a window. Add in the fact that Sidious lifted three senate pods at the same time, I don't think based on this, that claiming Sidious is going to stomp here is a overstatement.

And we also saw Yoda stop a senate pod coming right at him but we also saw him force push Palpatine who is less durable than a senate pod. He was fine. Palpatine's Lightning has been survived by even himself for over thirty seconds. Weak attack.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well he did TK maul and savage at once, and then he threw maul around with TK, then shocked him with lightning, he choked out two sets of mandalorian guards, me without hand gestures, force choked Anakin and shocked him almost simontaneously, and threw around several senate pods. So yea. 🙂

Khan can tank the attacks and has superior cellular regeneration that either of those two along with superior firepower and weaponry.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Give me an example of him doing so to someone as formidable as what he's up against here. In Star Wars these guys don't fight based off your biased perceptions of the characters. You have to cite evidence to back your claims.

To somebody as formidable? He does it to people more formidable. He temp KO'd Yoda with one blast. Yoda is far far beyond ANYBODY on this team. He held in stasis Maul and Savage... again two people more formidable than anybody on this team. They have a lightsaber... Force powers and were treated like feebs by Sidious. The point is, do you actually Sidious couldn't ragdoll anybody on this team or hold them in stasis... do you actually believe they could resist Sidious moving or holding them if they didn't want to be held?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I have responded to all of this in grand detail before. You repeating the same points I have rebutted is just spam.

Khan can tank the attacks and has superior cellular regeneration that either of those two along with superior firepower and weaponry.

We'll see that would work if you actaully rebutted them, but you didn't so. Saying the madalorians are feat less is irrevant as they were choked out with ease without hand gestures and aren't force sensitives which is the same category as khan since he has no defense to TK like them, so you agree he could have taken maul and savage down at the start of the fight then with TK thus he can do the same to all of these guys since they have no defense to TK aswell, and so many other holes in your "rebuttal".

Someone can tank attacks all thy want doesn't mean they eventually won't go down. Well that's because Sidious has no blasters and all he has or lightsabers that can deflect lasers and such and the force which is all he is using here IIRC. So really he ends this in the first 10 seconds, he just chokes them out since they are a waste of his time and can't provide any fun for him. He gives them the mandalorian treatment.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
To somebody as formidable? He does it to people more formidable. He temp KO'd Yoda with one blast. Yoda is far far beyond ANYBODY on this team. He held in stasis Maul and Savage... again two people more formidable than anybody on this team. They have a lightsaber... Force powers and were treated like feebs by Sidious. The point is, do you actually Sidious couldn't ragdoll anybody on this team or hold them in stasis... do you actually believe they could resist Sidious moving or holding them if they didn't want to be held?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
We'll see that would work if you actaully rebutted them, but you didn't so. Saying the madalorians are feat less is irrevant as they were choked out with ease without hand gestures and aren't force sensitives which is the same category as khan since he has no defense to TK like them, so you agree he could have taken maul and savage down at the start of the fight then with TK thus he can do the same to all of these guys since they have no defense to TK aswell, and so many other holes in your "rebuttal".

Someone can tank attacks all thy want doesn't mean they eventually won't go down. Well that's because Sidious has no blasters and all he has or lightsabers that can deflect lasers and such and the force which is all he is using here IIRC. So really he ends this in the first 10 seconds, he just chokes them out since they are a waste of his time and can't provide any fun for him. He gives them the mandalorian treatment.

Mandalorians with no feats, who didn't shoot ASAP, and in another room while these guys are all in the same room aware thus it is irrelevant.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Palpatine waited two seconds which is half the time Khan needs. No, I don't and he didn't so my opinion is reinforced by the fight. Khan shoots first and he dies. Both supported by multiple instances of evidence.

Mandalorians with no feats, who didn't shoot ASAP, and in another room while these guys are all in the same room aware thus it is irrelevant.

Well who says that exact same thing will happen which it won't. Since they will be starting at a starting distance aware of where each other is, Sidious can just choke them out since he doesn't need hand gestures. No your opinion isn't reinforced. Still waiting on your so called evidence.

Not having feats aren't really that important in this instance. They fit all of Khan's criteria. They don't have the force, he is basically a blaster wielding assailant, and we have seen how Sidious dealt with them and he immediantly choked them out, no one here except Sidious has defenses to TK, so,really all evidence points to he just chokes them out or he can throw them around, I'm fine with either you wanna know why cause Sidious wins in all of them.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well who says that exact same thing will happen which it won't. Since they will be starting at a starting distance aware of where each other is, Sidious can just choke them out since he doesn't need hand gestures. No your opinion isn't reinforced. Still waiting on your so called evidence.

Not having feats aren't really that important in this instance. They fit all of Khan's criteria. They don't have the force, he is basically a blaster wielding assailant, and we have seen how Sidious dealt with them and he immediantly choked them out, no one here except Sidious has defenses to TK, so,really all evidence points to he just chokes them out or he can throw them around, I'm fine with either you wanna know why cause Sidious wins in all of them.

No, they don't. It's like saying look at this Jedi or Sith and they sit the same criteria. Your brain doesn't function. We see Sidious is arrogant and leaves himself open to attack. Khan mows him down.

No, as your own evidence shows arrogance, featless foes, and Sith easily tanking tk throws.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you don't have any evidence to back your claims and want to ignore your own evidence.

No, they don't. It's like saying look at this Jedi or Sith and they sit the same criteria. Your brain doesn't function. We see Sidious is arrogant and leaves himself open to attack. Khan mows him down.

No, as your own evidence shows arrogance, featless foes, and Sith easily tanking tk throws.

https://youtu.be/-7hBZNsPnyg 0:34-0:40 he chokes the first set. 1:03-1:14 he chokes the second set without hand gestures. Well there's proof there. Also Khan fits there same mold. Blaster wielding assailant, and not worth Sidious' time. So really there's the evidence Khan goes down, and the rest of his team will follow.

All of this in the second paragraph is irrelevant and has no bearing on what I said. What does have baring is that I'm still waiting on you to provide evidence that this team will survive a force choke assault by Sidious.

Where was the evidence where he choked the mandalorian guards that he was arrogant and left himself exposed. The guards were ready by the time he got off the ship. That won't happen here since by the rules they are at a fair starting distance and each knows they are right there. Again in this instance fearless doesn't matter as the team is basically the same since they have no feats to suggest they can tank his force choke or any other TK. I've already explained him TKing maul and Savage, which only further proves he can TK this team since we don't have force walls.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
https://youtu.be/-7hBZNsPnyg 0:34-0:40 he chokes the first set. 1:03-1:14 he chokes the second set without hand gestures. Well there's proof there. Also Khan fits there same mold. Blaster wielding assailant, and not worth Sidious' time. So really there's the evidence Khan goes down, and the rest of his team will follow.

All of this in the second paragraph is irrelevant and has no bearing on what I said. What does have baring is that I'm still waiting on you to provide evidence that this team will survive a force choke assault by Sidious.

Where was the evidence where he choked the mandalorian guards that he was arrogant and left himself exposed. The guards were ready by the time he got off the ship. That won't happen here since by the rules they are at a fair starting distance and each knows they are right there. Again in this instance fearless doesn't matter as the team is basically the same since they have no feats to suggest they can tank his force choke or any other TK. I've already explained him TKing maul and Savage, which only further proves he can TK this team since we don't have force walls.

The evidence is he didn't initially attack but calmly walked into their direction leaving himself exposed for two seconds. Based off this evidence Khan wins as he's ruthless enough to shoot first unlike that pansy Han.

You already conceded the point when you acknowledged he released them so it isn't in character to act the way you want him to. Shame.

Originally posted by quanchi112
First two had two seconds to short first. Khan wins. The second batch weren't in the same room so it is inapplicable to this thread since they definitely are.

The evidence is he didn't initially attack but calmly walked into their direction leaving himself exposed for two seconds. Based off this evidence Khan wins as he's ruthless enough to shoot first unlike that pansy Han.

You already conceded the point when you acknowledged he released them so it isn't in character to act the way you want him to. Shame.

Again look at the situation. He walked off the ship when they were already ready, the same can't be said here since by rules they will start off at a starting distance full aware that the other is there. Actually the second set is acceptable since we know he can choke all three or at least 2 without hand gestures and then use hands to choke the other one or all three at once.

Again he was at the disadvantage since when he walked down they were already ready. So based off evidence no one on the khan team will get a chance to shoot or anything since he just going to choke them out from the start.

Are Khan, Rogers, and Bucky force weilders? No? Are they Maul and Savage?No. Are these 3 lightsaber deulist? No. What are they? Closest thing to what Sidious is used to are blaster wielding assailants, so with that he will treat them as such and we have seen them get choked from the start get choked and died, so ou really have no evidence to rebut, no situation in those scenes that say Sidious won't just choke them from the start since the evidence says he will choke them outright. Your move.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Again look at the situation. He walked off the ship when they were already ready, the same can't be said here since by rules they will start off at a starting distance full aware that the other is there. Actually the second set is acceptable since we know he can choke all three or at least 2 without hand gestures and then use hands to choke the other one or all three at once.

Again he was at the disadvantage since when he walked down they were already ready. So based off evidence no one on the khan team will get a chance to shoot or anything since he just going to choke them out from the start.

Are Khan, Rogers, and Bucky force weilders? No? Are they Maul and Savage?No. Are these 3 lightsaber deulist? No. What are they? Closest thing to what Sidious is used to are blaster wielding assailants, so with that he will treat them as such and we have seen them get choked from the start get choked and died, so ou really have no evidence to rebut, no situation in those scenes that say Sidious won't just choke them from the start since the evidence says he will choke them outright. Your move.

There is no evidence he does that right from the start nor do you have any evidence to suggest as such.

The point is moot since you agreed he let them up. The force wasn't used to counter so he will willingly release because as I've proven he's and idiot. There's a reason Vader tossed him down the shaft. He's an idiot.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He allowed them the time to put their guns on him and utter the word halt. Sidious didn't treat them as legit threats and luckily they didn't fire. Khan fires as soon as he can but Palpatine doesn't.

There is no evidence he does that right from the start nor do you have any evidence to suggest as such.

The point is moot since you agreed he let them up. The force wasn't used to counter so he will willingly release because as I've proven he's and idiot. There's a reason Vader tossed him down the shaft. He's an idiot.

He didn't allow them, he immediately came out with them ready. Do you need to see the scen again. So again this scene shows he will choke them outright since that's how he basically treats blaster wielding assailants.

Choking them outright seems proof enough

So they aren't the same. He let them go that time, these are different people he has never met or had dealings with so really he's just going to end them since they aren't worth his time. Actually it was. As I've proven Force weilders have force walls and Sidious is just to powerful for maul and savage and since khan or anyone here isn't even a force weilder so they can't handle his TK and then like we have seen he will just choke them out since the closest thing to them is a blaster wielding assailant and what we have seen is he just chokes them out immediantly.

Khan alone? Yeah, I think he loses. But this scenario . . . I dunno. It's not as if the Avengers haven't beaten TK opponents. I mean c'mon, you've got Loki who can more or less do everything movie Sidious can do, but better (i.e. doing pretty well against Thor). Not to mention Scarlet Witch.
If we were talking about ordinary humans like the mandalorian guards, sure, but Cap and Bucky can do stuff like pull moving helicopters going in an opposing direction (see the recent trailer) and are agile enough to literally run circles around friggin Iron Man at close range. We're talking about movie Sidious here (none of that EU DBZ stuff), so he gets beaten.

Ok I see where your coming from, I just believe that none of them here are going to survive Sidious immediantly choking them out, but that's just me.

Jedi and Sith have much better speed and precog feats than Cap or Khan or Bucky and Sidious ragdolls the best of them easily. He takes this with TK/ Force lightning combo easy

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
He didn't allow them, he immediately came out with them ready. Do you need to see the scen again. So again this scene shows he will choke them outright since that's how he basically treats blaster wielding assailants.

Choking them outright seems proof enough

So they aren't the same. He let them go that time, these are different people he has never met or had dealings with so really he's just going to end them since they aren't worth his time. Actually it was. As I've proven Force weilders have force walls and Sidious is just to powerful for maul and savage and since khan or anyone here isn't even a force weilder so they can't handle his TK and then like we have seen he will just choke them out since the closest thing to them is a blaster wielding assailant and what we have seen is he just chokes them out immediantly.

They had the chance to fire they didn't. Khan will.

So you have no proof right out of the gate he will attack without mercy as you claimed. You haven't proven that and we have seen Ventress force choke Anakin and Kenobi thus decimating your laughable claim.

Khan guns him down as he casually walks in his direction.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was arrogant and let time pass. Two seconds and that amount of time will get him killed.

They had the chance to fire they didn't. Khan will.

This is simply your assertion, and rather empty.

More than likely Sidious would not leave his life to "chance". It could be explained by Sidious being able to use the force to sense their intentions and knew the moment they would actually fire.

If we used the same level of "what if" analysis on any character, you could make a case for anyone being retarded/lucky/foolish. What if Khan's plan didn't work, then he would be an idiot wouldn't he? What if Khan did this instead of that, he would have succeeded more easily - therefore he is an idiot. etc.

The point of the scene was to show Sidious' formidability.

Originally posted by Placidity
This is simply your assertion, and rather empty.

More than likely Sidious would not leave his life to "chance". It could be explained by Sidious being able to use the force to sense their intentions and knew the moment they would actually fire.

If we used the same level of "what if" analysis on any character, you could make a case for anyone being retarded/lucky/foolish. What if Khan's plan didn't work, then he would be an idiot wouldn't he? What if Khan did this instead of that, he would have succeeded more easily - therefore he is an idiot. etc.

The point of the scene was to show Sidious' formidability.

Khan's behavior is the same. He shoots to kill and wouldn't have a plan outside of being in the best tactical position and to attack without mercy. Palpatine doesn't have this approach. He is arrogant and plays with his opponents. Shitty tactics in combat.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's funny you should say this because evidence proves Sidious leaves his life to chance quite often.

According to your interpretation which disallows any possibility of Sidious having foresight, which is unreasonable given that:

"Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design."

You can poke holes in this if you try hard enough, and while clearly Sidious' clairvoyance is not infallible, but the evidence is there.

Even getting his face melted may have been intentional. The appearance of his scars alone to the Senate would have carried emotional impact and justification for his declaration against the Jedi. Sidious is a master of manipulation.

" The attempt on my life has left me scarred and deformed, but I assure you my resolve has never been stronger. "