^
Partly agree. The novel and script should be used until it contradicts the movie. As you can see in Yoda vs Sidious, Lucas just changed his mind about that duel. The outcome was much different. But he's Lucas, he had every right to change his mind. Stover (it's not his fault) was just basing on a different version of script. So Lucas retconed novel before it was even released. Similar in that part. That's why I'm using another novel, Rise and Fall of DV. It's much more consistent.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Novel > Movie tbh.
Yeah only problem with this is line of thinking is, the whole novel isn't canon, unlike the movies and canon animations where every scene is a canon scene, even if they are slowed down for us and whatnot, the scenes and sequences of events themselves are canon.
Which is why the movie novelizations are only there to give us more depth into what's happening in the movies, but certainly not override them.
Originally posted by carthage
All this talk of ROTS Kenobi and he is even being used in the OP
Yes but is Ben Kenobi > or < ROTS Kenobi? Because that's kind of important.
Lucas always seemed to say <, but that doesn't make much sense in the new Canon.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
I think he probably became more powerful due to his studies of the Force over the years on Tatooine, but he became out of practice dueling-wise and less physically capable later on. As an all around combatant RotS Kenobi should be superior.
Yeah The Star Wars comic shows him meditating a lot (well I presume it was a lot of his time doing that), so he should be growing in the Force. However he didn't touch his Lightsaber for his first 5 year on Tatooine, but then he picks it up at the end of that comic.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Wasn't it just Savage who has shown the inability to block lightning in canon? I think any non-dumbass can probably figure out to raise their lightsaber(s) to block lightning, but that's just me.
Nightsisters also got wrecked by it. And Ventress struggled to deflect Dooku's lightning.
+ I firmly believe Dooku can do what he does to Ventress to Ahsoka.
Originally posted by Lord StarkThe Nightsisters' defenses were down because they thought he was defeated and obviously weren't expecting him to lash out like that. When Ventress struggled to block his lightning, it was when she was getting up and had poor footing (are we talking about the same thing?).
Nightsisters also got wrecked by it. And Ventress struggled to deflect Dooku's lightning.+ I firmly believe Dooku can do what he does to Ventress to Ahsoka.
Why? lol
Originally posted by |King Joker|
The Nightsisters' defenses were down because they thought he was defeated and obviously weren't expecting him to lash out like that. When Ventress struggled to block his lightning, it was when she was getting up and had poor footing (are we talking about the same thing?).
That's honestly a poor excuse for a force sensitive, or any sort of solider for that matter. Not to mention Ventress herself comments on how careful they must be because of Dooku's power. I don't buy it.
Yes we are, and I suppose. But she wasn't really getting up though, she had just TK'ed the hell out of Savage. As to why Dooku could treat Ahsoka like Ventress...well Ahsoka certainly hasn't shown anything that Late TCWs Ventress couldn't do. Her current feats put her on par.
But even early TCWs Ventress' feat of fighting Ahsoka and Luminara is more impressive than taking on the Inquisitors.
Originally posted by Lord StarkThe Nightsisters' state after being defeated that Dooku was "stronger than they imagined" and Ventress responds with "I warned you." Even though Ventress warned them, they obviously underestimated him and weren't prepared. Dooku waited when they were vulnerable to unleash his attack, it was pretty obvious.
That's honestly a poor excuse for a force sensitive, or any sort of solider for that matter. Not to mention Ventress herself comments on how careful they must be because of Dooku's power. I don't buy it.Yes we are, and I suppose. But she wasn't really getting up though, she had just TK'ed the hell out of Savage. As to why Dooku could treat Ahsoka like Ventress...well Ahsoka certainly hasn't shown anything that Late TCWs Ventress couldn't do. Her current feats put her on par.
But even early TCWs Ventress' feat of fighting Ahsoka and Luminara is more impressive than taking on the Inquisitors.
IIRC, Ventress was getting up and that's when Dooku shot the lightning at her, so she didn't have the best footing to block it. I'm not going to get into the Ahsoka/Dooku thing because I've already laid out my thoughts on that in my Ahsoka thread, and admittedly most Ahsoka arguments at this point are conjecture. After Ahsoka vs. Vader I'd definitely be willing to have a legit discussion on the topic. But by then I doubt people will argue what you're advocating. 😉
Originally posted by |King Joker|
The Nightsisters' state after being defeated that Dooku was "stronger than they imagined" and Ventress responds with "I warned you." Even though Ventress warned them, they obviously underestimated him and weren't prepared. Dooku waited when they were vulnerable to unleash his attack, it was pretty obvious.IIRC, Ventress was getting up and that's when Dooku shot the lightning at her, so she didn't have the best footing to block it. I'm not going to get into the Ahsoka/Dooku thing because I've already laid out my thoughts on that in my Ahsoka thread, and admittedly most Ahsoka arguments at this point are conjecture. After Ahsoka vs. Vader I'd definitely be willing to have a legit discussion on the topic. But by then I doubt people will argue what you're advocating. 😉
I'm sure Ahsoka will be above Ventress. Doesn't mean I'd put her above S6 TCWs Anakin, which is what she'd need to be for her to make a difference against Dooku.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Which has nothing to do with Ahsoka. It's not like it's out of the question that a team of a more powerful/experienced Obi-Wan and Rebels Ahsoka can take this without her being Dooku-tier to take on Dooku.
Prove ANH Kenobi is more powerful than ROTS Kenobi. If anything he's decreased in power. Frankly there's not much preventing Dooku from temporarily incapacitating Ahsoka and taking out Kenobi as he did on the Invisible Hand especially if he's got magnaguards to back him up.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He's decreased in power, but can make prime Vader struggle? The same prime Vader that solo's armies, tears apart AT-ATs, and stands in the middle of explosions without a scratch? That sounds retarded.
And regardless of if its canon or not. The Vader we see in the OT is clearly wildly inconsistent with the one we see in works like LOTS.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
First off considering this thread never said if it was Legends or Canon I'm gonna assume both. In which case yes there is plenty of evidence Kenobi decreased in power.
Second, prove Prime Vader was struggling.
Third, prove Vader ever once even used TK. Luke in ESB actually performed even better against Vader, scoring a hit on his shoulder. Do you wanna make the argument that a half trained Luke is above ROTS Kenobi as well?
And that's a shitty strawman and you know it, especially considering Vader isn't trying to kill Luke at that point and is trying to kill Kenobi. Not to mention it's not like ESB Luke hasn't been training to be a Jedi since ANH or anything, or has a variety of canon feats under his belt at this point. 😬
And regardless of if its canon or not. The Vader we see in the OT is clearly wildly inconsistent with the one we see in works like LOTS.