Prove God Exists...

Originally posted by juggerman
So if nothing short of that will suffice, why make the thread? Nothing but God Himself will sway you it seems

I do have some personal issues with God and religion.
Belief ( or non belief) in Him has split my family apart, growing up.

So maybe I should've re-titled this thread, "God Needs To Prove Himself" instead of how I titled it in the first place.

But yeah I wanted to read posters defending their fate, how God has changed their lives & that was proof enough for them...but so far no one hasn't.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
I do have some personal issues with God and religion.
Belief ( or non belief) in Him has split my family apart, growing up.

So maybe I should've re-titled this thread, "God Needs To Prove Himself" instead of how I titled it in the first place.

But yeah I wanted to read posters defending their fate, how God has changed their lives & that was proof enough for them...but so far no one hasn't.

What is it that you seek? Do you want God to be real, but you need empirical evidence of His existence before you believe in Him. It seems you're searching for God to fill a certain void in your life.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
I do have some personal issues with God and religion.
Belief ( or non belief) in Him has split my family apart, growing up.

So maybe I should've re-titled this thread, "God Needs To Prove Himself" instead of how I titled it in the first place.

But yeah I wanted to read posters defending their fate, how God has changed their lives & that was proof enough for them...but so far no one hasn't.

Anyway, I used to believe in God, I don't now, but maybe I will again some day...it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Mindset
[B]Neither religion nor God split your family up, your family split your family up.

/B]

Please provide in depth, personal details of my life to back your statement.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
What is it that you seek? Do you want God to be real, but you need empirical evidence of His existence before you believe in Him. It seems you're searching for God to fill a certain void in your life.

Why is it so wrong to want or seek proof?

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Please provide in depth, personal details of my life to back your statement.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Why is it so wrong to want or seek proof?

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
I do have some personal issues with God and religion.
Belief ( or non belief) in Him has split my family apart, growing up.

So maybe I should've re-titled this thread, "God Needs To Prove Himself" instead of how I titled it in the first place.

But yeah I wanted to read posters defending their fate, how God has changed their lives & that was proof enough for them...but so far no one hasn't.

you actually do believe in it all, but your just jaded that your notion of God has not led to something you think he should allow. So now you rebel against his authority and influence by calling out his intangibility.

If you're an atheist, then let the whole silly God bullshit go and see your family's issues for what they are: human-created foolishness. Work with that, and stop blaming and attacking their religion---it's not going to help you or them. Opening this thread just to chastise believers' faith is just coming off as petty and spiteful. And that you're masquerading your bitterness behind the classic "I'm just saying..." or "I'm just asking questions..." is pretty underhanded.

Or you're unapologetically shit disturbing and trolling. Either or.

Once again.

Why is it so wrong to ask for verification?

I can't put it any simpler than that.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Once again.

Why is it so wrong to ask for verification?

I can't put it any simpler than that.

Let's define proof as a replicable experience directly amenable to the senses. Let's define *God* as an immaterial entity. How do we justify demanding physical-sensory proof of an immaterial/transcendent entity? Doesn't seem fair.

Eg, a floating gold mountain with winged humanoids suddenly appears over every city on Earth. Could be the doings of God, but only the Floating Mountains and Winged Humanoids are empirically, directly experienced. Only these phenomena, to the senses, are evident. The God conclusion is inferential.

Let's expand the definition of proof to include any replicable, immediate experience. Got an ontological argument? Could mean God exists, but again, the only thing being directly experienced is the ontological argument. The God conclusion is inferential.

In both cases, all we have are proverbial shadows on the cave wall.

Traditionally, historically, meditation has been the means to access what is considered replicable and directly experienced *transcendent* phenomena. But: are these experiences valid? That's the $64 zillion question. What requirement would you need here to determine that? Do glorious visions reveal information that improve the quality of life for yourself and others? Do these insights bestow a grand life perspective, resulting in a reverent, peaceful and constructive attitude toward the world, even in the face of suffering and death? Traditionally, historically, this has typically been the case.

In closing, I've always liked the Zen approach. Essentially: "Does God exist?" asks the Zen student. The master replies, "Meditate. Then we'll talk."

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You don't believe in God or the religions centered around him, but you readily blame both for your family's issues. You can't have it both ways. Either you reject the whole concept of divinity and deities and see it (and subsequently, all problems associated with it) as human constructs, OR...

The thing you quoted it sounds like the problem was the belief or non belief in God. If true that is technically not blaming God for anything, nor does it mean said person believes in God.

Let's put it another way which is simple. If God is real, the biblical God, then he is a piece of shit. Some might say this is an attack, but I am not being aggressive about this. It is simply an observation via some of the things he does in the bible. I don't think what I just labeled him is that offensive in context of what he has done. People who would be offended by it would be selectively ignoring parts of the bible.

Don't get me wrong God also does do a lot of stuff that could be considered good in the bible as well. But it doesn't really erase the bad stuff.

Here is the truth though, God as we know him is just a construct built by people. If something out there that created the universe exists then we most likely don't know much about it. The stories in the bible are just that, stories written by people, not divine beings.

If I found proof the biblical God was real I would just feel..saddened. Since it just seems like so much wasted potential.

I don't think anyone apart from Starsie believes divine beings wrote the bible. Everybody knows jesus gang did it.

But there are a not small amount of people who believe in the bible. I'd be curious to know where they think the writers got all these ideas from.

Since parts of the bible take place a long time before Jesus, so where did this information come from? That is a question I'm asking to people who believe in the bible.

Originally posted by Surtur
But there are a not small amount of people who believe in the bible. I'd be curious to know where they think the writers got all these ideas from.

Since parts of the bible take place a long time before Jesus, so where did this information come from? That is a question I'm asking to people who believe in the bible.

As Christians, we believe God inspired the men who wrote the Bible through divine revelation. This means that the authors wrote verbatim what God wanted to say. God did not audibly speak these words to the authors, but revealed His meessage in such a way to them that it was verbatim what He wanted to say.

So, to answer your question, the Scriptures came from God.

Considering posters can't stop mentioning the bible as means of evidence...then wouldn't it stand that what is needed is an updated version then constantly referencing something that has no relevance to today's society?

Isn't that where the true problem lies?

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
As Christians, we believe God inspired the men who wrote the Bible through divine revelation. This means that the authors wrote verbatim what God wanted to say. God did not audibly speak these words to the authors, but revealed His meessage in such a way to them that it was verbatim what He wanted to say.

So, to answer your question, the Scriptures came from God.

Precisely. I don't think anyone is naive enough to think that the Bible just dropped out of the sky already written by God Himself. All the authors in the Bible were insprired by God though which is the reason people call it the "inspired Word of God."

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Considering posters can't stop mentioning the bible as means of evidence...then wouldn't it stand that what is needed is an updated version then constantly referencing something that has no relevance to today's society?

Isn't that where the true problem lies?

Funny Islam is so accepted here and should be protected but when it comes to the bible and God it's considered a back water right wing cult while Islam seems the future religion of the democratic and liberal party.

^Truth.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Considering posters can't stop mentioning the bible as means of evidence...then wouldn't it stand that what is needed is an updated version then constantly referencing something that has no relevance to today's society?

Isn't that where the true problem lies?

It does have relevance in today's world. The Bible is a book that, at its core, is concerned about the spirituality of man. Besides technology and cultural diffrrences, those people are just like us. The Bible is meant to reveal Christ as the Savior of our souls and that includes everyone that ever existed or will exist. If you can grasp that, you will understand the Bible is not outdated.

I agree that is the most impprtant part but it also contains a great deal of prophecy. Not to mention guidelines in Psalms and Proverbs for living a better life. Then, of course, the part in Genesis that talks about the beginning is extremely important too. The Bible wouldn't be the book it is without all of those things. Very little, if any, of the Bible is "outdated". If people wanna start talking about an "outdated" book that needs revising it should be the Koran. 👆

Originally posted by Star428
Not only that, but it also contains a great deal of prophecy. Not to mention guidelines in Psalms and Proverbs for living a better life. Then, of course, the part in Genesis that talks about the beginning is extremely important to.

Exactly. The Old Testament is filled with prophecies, many of them about the coming of Jesus, the Messiah. Jesus already fulfilled all of those prophecies concerning His first coming. What are the odds of that? One man fulfilling prophecies to the letter, written long before He was born in Bethlehem. Salvation was the same then as it is now, except during te Old Testament, they looked forward to Christ's coming...we look back at it as having already been fulfilled.