Originally posted by juggermanNah. I'm talking like worrying they're alive. Not just big ass kickings. Vegeta was still functioning fairly well afterwards. His pride almost died to 18 though. He also got up and walked away from the Z Fighters and almost everyone else was in the same condition as him. Iirc Zarbon was the only one to KO him there.
For Vegeta you should add Z- Fighters, Zarbon, Recoome, 18, and Fat Buu to "near deaths"
And Fat Buu ended in death, and Vegeta was still able to fire off one of the most powerful attacks we saw in Z contrary to Fat Buu's attacks, though of course he killed himself.
Also thinking about Fat Buu, but Dabura almost killed Piccolo but that wasn't really in battle, nor about pls.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
He did that to draw Gero out of hiding, because they can't sense cyborgs.Okay, sure, they're roughly equals. That was my whole point, Goku > Piccolo, even with equal PL's.
Um... Okay, sure. If Piccolo had some weakness to exploit, he could, and would. But Vegeta's only weakness is his pride, which isn't a weakness, as long as he doesn't have any other weaknesses. :/ There is no way for Piccolo to raise his own power, or lower Vegeta's. They can only fight in this situation, because Vegeta doesn't have his tail, and Piccolo doesn't have any other forms like Frieza/Cell. And Vegeta > Goku, and Goku > Piccolo, ALL with even PL's. Meaning Vegeta > Goku > Piccolo, with even PL's.
Well to be fair, Vegeta wasn't almost killed by #18. She just broke his arm, that's all. Really nothing more than a mild inconvenience for him.
He did it and then immediately cursed himself for forgetting it would power Gero up.
That doesn't really matter since Goku >>> Vegeta even with a weaker PL
He does, Vegeta's pride is a major weakness that can and has been exploited. Plus almost all of Vegeta's victories were against opponents that were wildly inferior to himself. When an opponent is at his level or beyond, he's all but useless.
I thought Vegeta was almost killed by 18. Guess I was wrong
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Nah. I'm talking like worrying they're alive. Not just big ass kickings. Vegeta was still functioning fairly well afterwards. His pride almost died to 18 though. He also got up and walked away from the Z Fighters and almost everyone else was in the same condition as him. Iirc Zarbon was the only one to KO him there.And Fat Buu ended in death, and Vegeta was still able to fire off one of the most powerful attacks we saw in Z contrary to Fat Buu's attacks, though of course he killed himself.
Also thinking about Fat Buu, but Dabura almost killed Piccolo but that wasn't really in battle, nor about pls.
Yeah maybe not 18 but the Zarbon beating was near death. He even says it himself after being healed that Zarbon almost killed him
And iirc Buu did almost kill him but Trunks saved his life
Dabura wasn't a fight but we can count it for Piccolo
I haven't seen the Zarbon one for a while but iirc he got up and healed on his own. Either way that's probably the worst one besides Kid Buu.
I'd be hesitant to put a fight where he died into the "near death" category is all. I don't even think he got ko'ed there though surprisingly. That shit was brutal and he made Gohan look like even bigger trash by taking any of those attacks.
Either way though, for being hugely mistreated they don't have that terrible of showings. Pretty much everyone they almost died against or died against is understandable (except when Goku let Kid Buu kill all his kids and Piccolo). Zarbon is probably the worst of the bunch.
Vegeta looks better in terms of win losses after the initial villain arc of them.
Worse if we factor in movies. Vegeta monologue to instant loss and all that.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
I haven't seen the Zarbon one for a while but iirc he got up and healed on his own. Either way that's probably the worst one besides Kid Buu.I'd be hesitant to put a fight where he died into the "near death" category is all. I don't even think he got ko'ed there though surprisingly. That shit was brutal and he made Gohan look like even bigger trash by taking any of those attacks.
Either way though, for being hugely mistreated they don't have that terrible of showings. Pretty much everyone they almost died against or died against is understandable (except when Goku let Kid Buu kill all his kids and Piccolo). Zarbon is probably the worst of the bunch.
Vegeta looks better in terms of win losses after the initial villain arc of them.
Worse if we factor in movies. Vegeta monologue to instant loss and all that.
Nah Zarbon went back to Frieza and said he killed Vageta. Frieza scolds him because Vegeta hid a Dragonball. Zarbon went out and found a near dead Vegeta and brought him back to the healing chamber. Vegeta was healed then stole Frieza's Dragonballs.
Well he was nearly killed by Fat Buu before he was saved and then he killed himself. I think it still counts but I can see why you may not
I wasn't trying to say their showings were overly bad, just that Vegeta has has just about as many negative showings as Piccolo. Possibly more.
Originally posted by juggermanK. I was hazy about that one. That's another one for Vegeta then. On a hazy note, I forget how bad Piccolo lost to Goku in Dragonball. Was that just a loss or a near death experience?
Nah Zarbon went back to Frieza and said he killed Vageta. Frieza scolds him because Vegeta hid a Dragonball. Zarbon went out and found a near dead Vegeta and brought him back to the healing chamber. Vegeta was healed then stole Frieza's Dragonballs.Well he was nearly killed by Fat Buu before he was saved and then he killed himself. I think it still counts but I can see why you may not
I wasn't trying to say their showings were overly bad, just that Vegeta has has just about as many negative showings as Piccolo. Possibly more.
Well a fight that ends in a death shouldn't count near deaths imo. I'd have to go back but Vegeta wasn't even ko'ed by Buu to my recollection. Just badly beat and on his way to death had it continued but not near enough.
True. Though that probably has to do with the only thing Piccolo did after Cell was attack Babadi and blow up a door. Had Z continued on during that time Piccolo would have maybe turned his shoulder every so often. Some new villain shows up and we get a shocked face from Piccolo. Piccolo then looks better from doing nothing. Which probably would have benefitted Vegeta in a couple cases.
Maybe later I'll go through the histories if I feel like getting out my laptop.
Also it'll be interesting what they do with Piccolo and Buu in the tourney. Both need a powerup, and you can't really make Piccolo more powerful than Buu so... very curious.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
K. I was hazy about that one. That's another one for Vegeta then. On a hazy note, I forget how bad Piccolo lost to Goku in Dragonball. Was that just a loss or a near death experience?Well a fight that ends in a death shouldn't count near deaths imo. I'd have to go back but Vegeta wasn't even ko'ed by Buu to my recollection. Just badly beat and on his way to death had it continued but not near enough.
True. Though that probably has to do with the only thing Piccolo did after Cell was attack Babadi and blow up a door. Had Z continued on during that time Piccolo would have maybe turned his shoulder every so often. Some new villain shows up and we get a shocked face from Piccolo. Piccolo then looks better from doing nothing. Which probably would have benefitted Vegeta in a couple cases.
Maybe later I'll go through the histories if I feel like getting out my laptop.Also it'll be interesting what they do with Piccolo and Buu in the tourney. Both need a powerup, and you can't really make Piccolo more powerful than Buu so... very curious.
I don't think it was near death. He was just injured and on his way to unconsciousness iirc. Goku beat him by knocking him out of the ring with a flying headbutt to the ribs. Tho to be fair, Piccolo can survive things that would likely kill Saiyans.
I think you're right about him not being KO'd. I just mean Buu was sitting on him and actively beating him to death when Trunk intervened. But as I said I can see why you might not count it
Yeah I didn't like that Piccolo was of no use as a fighter after Cell. I think it would have benefited the series to have him keep up with the Saiyan(tho likely he would have always been a step behind). He just was very unique but I guess Buu is kind of a very upgraded Piccolo. Regen, elongated limbs, magic.
I haven't watched any Super yet. I've heard a few things about it tho. Back when GT first came out I thought a cool idea would be if Piccolo ran into all of the Super Nameks and King Piccolo while he was trapped in Hell and fused with them all becoming a SSJ4-SSJ5 level villain/anti hero. He would still have love for Gohan and such but all that evil in him would have huge affects.
They did a bunch of Nameks fusing in DragonBall Multiverse
Originally posted by juggermanIn GT Piccolo became the protector of Hell or whatever which was kind of cool. That's about all he did though.
I don't think it was near death. He was just injured and on his way to unconsciousness iirc. Goku beat him by knocking him out of the ring with a flying headbutt to the ribs. Tho to be fair, Piccolo can survive things that would likely kill Saiyans.I think you're right about him not being KO'd. I just mean Buu was sitting on him and actively beating him to death when Trunk intervened. But as I said I can see why you might not count it
Yeah I didn't like that Piccolo was of no use as a fighter after Cell. I think it would have benefited the series to have him keep up with the Saiyan(tho likely he would have always been a step behind). He just was very unique but I guess Buu is kind of a very upgraded Piccolo. Regen, elongated limbs, magic.
I haven't watched any Super yet. I've heard a few things about it tho. Back when GT first came out I thought a cool idea would be if Piccolo ran into all of the Super Nameks and King Piccolo while he was trapped in Hell and fused with them all becoming a SSJ4-SSJ5 level villain/anti hero. He would still have love for Gohan and such but all that evil in him would have huge affects.
They did a bunch of Nameks fusing in DragonBall Multiverse
I have my doubts that he'll fuse with Nameks in Super though even though that's a perfectly available powerup to explain a strength increase. It just seems to make too much sense for them to use it. Especially with all the talk of Namek in the recent arc. Everything is set up too well for them to make a legitimate reason.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
In GT Piccolo became the protector of Hell or whatever which was kind of cool. That's about all he did though.I have my doubts that he'll fuse with Nameks in Super though even though that's a perfectly available powerup to explain a strength increase. It just seems to make too much sense for them to use it. Especially with all the talk of Namek in the recent arc. Everything is set up too well for them to make a legitimate reason.
He survived being attacked by Gohan. Doesn't seem like much on the surface but in GT Gohan never stopped training so he would be more powerful than his Mystic self. Then he helped free Goku from Hell, which was kinda silly since Goku IT'd into Hell later on and left Piccolo there. All in all he got the shaft
I was kinda turned off by the new films. The don't make much sense in the grand scheme and that's why I haven't really cared to watch Super.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Ugh, people that gave shitty GT a try but won't give Super the same chance/benefit of a doubt.
GT had some definite bad parts, but some good parts too. I quite liked the Babi arc, and the Syn/Omega Shenron fight was suitably epic for a finale.
Super, well, so far it's been pretty lazy in it's foes and powerups. And if it suddenly buckles down and gets good, that's great! But it hasn't yet.