Are you for or against the death penalty in the U.S.

Started by Bardock428 pages

Originally posted by dadudemon

Couple of things:

1. What you just did is a red-herring. It is very much irrelevant to the point I made. You ignored the point I made and then tried to paint my argument as silly with an illogical comparison.

2. That's in illogical comparison. A tree, according to some, may very well be better than a human. Additionally, I compared a human situation to another human situation, not a seemingly non-sapient organism from the Plantae Kingdom. I mean, at least keep your comparative arguments to the same Kingdom much less species. 🙂

1. You did not actually made a point, since you did not clarify what you meant with your comparison sentence, however it is pretty apparent that you meant to imply that my thinking could be likened to that of the nazis, I explained why that is not the case.

2. It is exactly my point though, we can insert anything into the sentence and then quibble about which is correct and which is not. You make your points why you think it doesn't apply to trees, but doesn't apply to foetuses, and I make my points why it applies to foetuses but not Jews.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This is a much better argument but it is wrong. I agree that abortion should be available for first trimester pregnancies. I still morally oppose abortions except in the following cases: medical necessity, rape, incest, or in the cases of the mother being harmfully (to either herself or the developing baby) mentally ill.

That's fair enough, our real world implementation would be very similar then, we just disagree on the moral circumstances.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Careful not to try to represent my perspective. I was only providing alternatives to your perspective (which should be clear that they are not my perspective since I made my perspective quite clear). Some do hold that incarceration is inhumane. They are a minority, obviously, but they make good arguments. "Death is better than life in prison." That's not an uncommon statement. Look:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=death%20is%20better%20than%20life%20in%20prison

I should perhaps have made it more clear by saying "In that case we would disagree". I was aware that you gave multiple perspectives not necessarily your own.

Originally posted by dadudemon
A argumentation tactic is to make an argument that you don't agree with but you think your opponent will latch onto. The trick is, you already have a counter for your predicted opponents counter. After your opponent latches onto that argument, you then counter with the planned counter which is designed to end the point of debate as the other party sees the folly in their line of thinking.

It can be a risky debate tactic but the payoff is good for both parties. You see the error in your perspective, and I've made my point more clear.

The only thing unsatisfactory from your response is I did not get, "I see what you're saying..." It still allows for you to disagree but as long as you acknowledge that it can be considered more humane to execute an unrepentant murderer, then my point is complete.

Well, I am glad you are happy with this outcome, but I would not have hidden it had you just asked straight. My support for the right to assisted suicide is well documented on this site.

Originally posted by dadudemon

We are? How?

And we can do that? How?

Are we the anti-abortion police? Who goes around enforcing not-abortions?

"Hold it right there, doctor! Put the fetus vacuum down! You're under arrest by the anti-abortion police."

😆

I don't have time for that. And if I did, I'd pretend to let the doctor off just so I could get his/her vacuum (I'd confiscate it under the "criminal asset forfeiture" precedence) to get those pesky pieces of trash in the absurdly tiny cracks and crevasses in my car.

Of course, I'm mostly joking. But enforcing anti-abortion policies is hard to do and it is harmful.

Women who want abortions but do not have a readily available and legal means will get abortions in back-alleys or try to use "home remedies." It is a story as old as modern humankind. I think tolerating first trimester abortions is the tolerable solution. I still oppose it on moral grounds.

Again, we agree in implementation then, although I would probably go further than even the first trimester.

My argument was not that we currently police women and doctors who provide abortions (since it is legally permitted in both your and my country), I'm saying that those people who want to police it are forcing women to continue their pregnancy (or go to illegal and unsafe means as they have done in the past, and potentially be punished for that).

Again, this thread has become dominated by a painfully semantic argument that now bears no resemblance to the topic. Take it to PM.

Originally posted by Bardock42
1. You did not actually made a point, since you did not clarify what you meant with your comparison sentence, however it is pretty apparent that you meant to imply that my thinking could be likened to that of the nazis, I explained why that is not the case.

The point was very simplistically implicit. Wasn't very hard to grasp. Relegating humans to a subhuman so that you can execute them (can apply to abortion and to capital punishment).

Any other comparisons you try to make will fail unless they directly tie to the relegation of humans to subhumans with the express purpose of justifying their killing.

Holy shit, I think you just got me. My point was very obvious and even the posters you think are dumb got it, too. So you win, again, with another "gotcha, dadudemon" moment.

Originally posted by Bardock42
2. It is exactly my point though, we can insert anything into the sentence and then quibble about which is correct and which is not. You make your points why you think it doesn't apply to trees, but doesn't apply to foetuses, and I make my points why it applies to foetuses but not Jews.

No you can't insert anything into the sentence (for the purposes of this discussion and context) as I explained above.

Perhaps you missed the point I made about relegating humans to subhumans so you can kill them, earlier? If so, fair enough. I don't expect you to read the walls of text I post.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That's fair enough, our real world implementation would be very similar then, we just disagree on the moral circumstances.

Yeah, you had better agree with me. uhuh

Originally posted by Bardock42
I should perhaps have made it more clear by saying "In that case we would disagree". I was aware that you gave multiple perspectives not necessarily your own.

Okay, fair again.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, I am glad you are happy with this outcome, but I would not have hidden it had you just asked straight. My support for the right to assisted suicide is well documented on this site.

You miss the point if you think I could have "just asked straight." The point was to demonstrate human denigration for the justification of ending it. Damn...I really think I already made that point even before I clarified I was "leading the witness."

Originally posted by Bardock42
My argument was not that we currently police women and doctors who provide abortions (since it is legally permitted in both your and my country), I'm saying that those people who want to police it are forcing women to continue their pregnancy (or go to illegal and unsafe means as they have done in the past, and potentially be punished for that).

I can agree to an illegal operation needing criminal prosecution. That shit is unsafe and has a stupid high mortality rate for the mother (I think anything over 1%, in a medical procedure, is a "stupid high mortality rate" for any modern medicine practice).

Originally posted by Bardock42
Sending the message that life is precious, even that of the most heinous of us, makes all of society value other people's lives more.

You lefties love to bring that up when it suits your purpose don't you? Where's that bleeding heart stance of yours when an innocent unborn baby is on the chopping block? Oh, it's nowhere to be found then, is it? I guess innocent unborn babies lives aren't "precious", eh? Oh, but evil murdering bastards lives sure are aren't they? LOL. Gotta love the hypocrisy and so-called "logic" of the left. 👆

Lol an unborn baby on the chopping block?
How dramatic!