#Oscar's so White

Originally posted by MF DELPH
White people make more movies than people of color, though. If 500 films are released in a year and amongst that 500, 30-40 are written, directed, and acted by people of color, they're facing 460+ other films for 5 slots in various categories. The issue with representation is the number of quality films being put out and the amount of competition they face in the market. Concussion, Straight Outta Compton, Beasts of No Country, and Creed versus the field, when the field is over 400 films, isn't that hard a pill to swallow. There were a lot of good films in 2015.

Like I said

"I agree with the argument that some of it is based on the racism within the film industry as a whole, i.e. that the voters already have to pick out of films skewed towards white actors, but that's a problem in itself, and one that the Academy Awards with its immense influence can also make better."

Originally posted by Bardock42
I am saying the Academy (as it agrees) should ensure its demographics are actually in line with the current times. I also think that the discussion of this racial bias is valuable and may change the minds of voters (who are always subjective, pretending that they are just objectively finding "the best", and they just happen to be white, is indigenous) and make them consider whether they have prejudices they hadn't thought of before.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Have black actors won the awards before ? Were the racists not present at those times ? Silly me I always thought someone making an accusation should prove it.

The racism that's being alleged is not one so overt that the voters actually say to themselves "I will not vote for a person of color", rather it is a subtle racism that perhaps makes them in 55% of the cases choose the white actor over an equal performance by a black actor, which then, over 5000 voters, ends up making it considerably more likely that a white person gets nominated.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Again, the argument never was that the Academy WON'T vote for People of Color. The argument is that it is biased towards white people. And that is true from 85 on, and it's still true from 2000 on.

Additionally the demographics of the voting base in itself is very skewed and just doesn't reflect the membership of the Academy nor the Screen Actors Guild.

I agree with the argument that some of it is based on the racism within the film industry as a whole, i.e. that the voters already have to pick out of films skewed towards white actors, but that's a problem in itself, and one that the Academy Awards with its immense influence can also make better.

It seems you're confusing biased with the ethnic makeup of the voting board. What your essentially saying is that white people can't appreciate any cinematic works that don't cater specifically to white people, which is clearly inaccurate as various films starring, written, directed, CGI'd, and scored by people of color have won. You're also assuming that if the Academy's voting block were more diverse it would guarantee more diverse winners, but that doesn't work out if the voting is supposed to actually be based on the quality of the films. You still have the issue of representation in the marketplace, and the quality of the product in the marketplace. It's not as simple as adding more Asians, Latinos, etc to the voting pool. You still need more great films to compete.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
It seems you're confusing biased with the ethnic makeup of the voting board. What your essentially saying is that white people can't appreciate any cinematic works that don't cater specifically to white people, which is clearly inaccurate as various films starring, written, directed, CGI'd, and scored by people of color have won. You're also assuming that if the Academy's voting block were more diverse it would guarantee more diverse winners, but that doesn't work out if the voting is supposed to actually be based on the quality of the films. You still have the issue of representation in the marketplace, and the quality of the product in the marketplace. It's not as simple as adding more Asians, Latinos, etc to the voting pool. You still need more great films to compete.

That's not what I'm saying (you can look at my last post for something closer to what I'm saying).

Again though, I agree, besides fixing the voting demographics, the bigger problem of the film industry as a whole (especially in the US) skewing towards white people is real, and needs to also be addressed (i.e. more opportunities for people of color as directors and filmmakers, actors, producers, etc. and enough money to polish and market those films)

Because, as a white person, I totally agree that white people can appreciate cinematic works that don't cater to them (but the industry seems to not think so in large enough numbers).

So with this 10 pages of responses the only sure fire way I can see that has the best shot at nullifying racism as much as possible is..specific racial categories.

Seriously, if 4 years from now when this diversifying act is apparently complete we still don't see any black nom's..? People will still call the academy racist.

So you're not saying that since most of the voters are white there's an assumption that they would prefer cinematic works by white people to those of people of color, and this is despite, on numerous occasions, these same voters giving nominations to various people of color, like, for example, M. Night Shyamalan?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
So you're not saying that since most of the voters are white there's an assumption that they would prefer cinematic works by white people to those of people of color, and this is despite, on numerous occasions, these same voters giving nominations to various people of color, like, for example, M. Night Shyamalan?

The way you phrase it there it's a lot less absolute, and more close to what my actual opinion is.

I'd also differentiate between appreciating a cinematic work and choosing which actor to nominate in a vote later, but that's nit-picking, really.

But wouldn't that follow that Leonardo DiCaprio would have beaten Forest Whitaker rather than the other way around? Or Chiwetel Ejiofor wouldn't have even gotten a nomination for best actor in 2013 for 12 Years a Slave? Or Denzel the year before that for Flight?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
But wouldn't that follow that Leonardo DiCaprio would have beaten Forest Whitaker rather than the other way around? Or Chiwetel Ejiofor wouldn't have even gotten a nomination for best actor in 2013 for 12 Years a Slave? Or Denzel the year before that for Flight?

No, because slight preferences lead to a statistical anomaly, but not necessarily a certainty in all individual cases.

Slight preferences, or a skewed pool of options to pull from?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Slight preferences, or a skewed pool of options to pull from?

I believe both to be at play.

At any rate, I believe that the skewed nominations and wins contribute to the skewed pool as well, it's a reinforcing cycle.

So is it you're thinking that, for example, if 90% of the films released annually were written, directed, scored, cast, and acted by people of color the other 10% of films which weren't would still dominate all the awards?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
So is it you're thinking that, for example, if 90% of the films released annually were written, directed, scored, cast, and acted by people of color the other 10% of films which weren't would still dominate all the awards?

No, I don't think they'd dominate.

Again, I think the racial skew is relatively subtle. For example under the same process as today they'd maybe get 15-20% of the nominations, which wouldn't be domination, but still a bias towards "white" films.

Originally posted by Surtur
So with this 10 pages of responses the only sure fire way I can see that has the best shot at nullifying racism as much as possible is..specific racial categories.

Seriously, if 4 years from now when this diversifying act is apparently complete we still don't see any black nom's..? People will still call the academy racist.

Well it's not like we really had a shot a figuring out a real, workable way to end prejudice/racism lol

I'm just happy nobody was too offensive towards anyone else.

I think if there is indeed racism then the amount of white voters needs to be reduced by far below 88%. Heck 50% would be the fair amount assuming only two races were in the running, but since that is not true it would be even less.

I guess I'm more cynical then others about people. I'm not saying racism exists there, but if it does then this step does nothing to prevent the same thing from happening next year. Or should I say in 2020.

I think its funny that a bunch of Liberals are saying another bunch of LIBERALS are a bunch of racists.

Ahhh Hollywood!

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]I think its funny that a bunch of Liberals are saying another bunch of LIBERALS are a bunch of racists.

Ahhh Hollywood! [/B]

Oh does this mean you aint gonna watch my award show now?

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]Oh does this mean you aint gonna watch my award show now? [/B]

I hope he does, I mean the BET awards need all the viewers they can get, right?