Originally posted by Patient_Leech
You guys need to get in line with the proper moral order: raping, killing, and maiming is all okay as long as it's in the name of Muhammad or Allah.
I'm going to dedicate a poem to the guy, he loves them as much as bacon cheeseburgers.
There once was a guy named Muhammad
Who loved poetry so much he would stop it
With a chop of your head, he'd kill you dead
And yet still be called a prophet.
طفل وسؤال خطير لماذا الله تحدى الشيطان ثم يعطية فرصة ليضلنا ذاكر نايك ابداع
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD1xGLPcRG4
معاق يسئل لماذا الله ترك الانجيل يتحرف وحفظ القران من التحريف Zakir Naik ذاكر نايك
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYymjCJVUHc
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@[B]SurturI have observed that your hatred for Islam is really intense. There might be some reasons for that. If you are comfortable in highlighting your reasons here, please do so. If you seek privacy in this matter, then send me a PM.
Let's talk about this. [/B]
He's already made those reasons pretty clear. In short: Muhammad was a warlord asshole who advocated killing, maiming, raping, and pillaging to spread the 'faith.'
What is there to like?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That view seems to be significantly distorted and subjective.
I think it's pretty well established that he was a barbaric 7th century warlord. Not really subjective there. So it's no wonder the Quran advocates such violence like killing infidels and the subjugation of women.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@[B]SurturI have observed that your hatred for Islam is really intense. There might be some reasons for that. If you are comfortable in highlighting your reasons here, please do so. If you seek privacy in this matter, then send me a PM.
Let's talk about this. [/B]
One reason I hate Islam is because of the person they put on a pedestal. If you read other posts in this forum you will see I loathe all religions. Christianity is especially one. But even I can admit that Jesus was an okay guy.
Compare that to Muhammad. He is a warlord, he didn't like Jews, he apparently married a chick at 6 and f*cked her at 9. Some of the deeds he did include murder for a variety of reasons, including "dude wrote a negative poem about me".
I mentioned another story of Muhammad having all the Jews who had hit puberty in a town killed. Or his torturing a Jew to death for treasure.
But hey the bible has some horrible shit too, it's just we don't see them acting it out as much these days and if they did people would lambaste them. I just hate the exceptions the religion seems to get. It's more acceptable to talk shit about Christians in this country than Muslims, which is weird given the majority religion here is not Islam. Or to use bizarre defenses. A muslim just blew himself up? Well shit what about the Crusades?
There is a lot to talk about when it comes to Islam and why one might dislike it or even hate it. Think of people talking about moderate muslim countries, one I always see mentioned is Indonesia. Are you aware what you need to do if you are female and want to join the army or even become a cop? The two finger test, which is exactly like it sounds.
So I guess it comes down to stuff like: the person they hold in high regard is abhorrent, society in general goes way out of it's way to make it seem taboo to question the negative aspects of Islam, and the way it is treated in regards to other religions. Oh and the treatment of gays and women is all kinds of awful, as the two finger test showed(as well as them deciding to give free bungee-less bungee jumping lessons off buildings to gays)
Even when a muslim is confronted with some horrible they give weird excuses. I was listening to a radio show and they read something negative from the Quran. The Muslim responded by blaming it on the translation and that it made it seem taken out of context and "made more sense in the original language". This line was about beating your wife and how I guess they are allowed to take any non-muslim as a sex slave.
Not all Muslims are radicals, a massive majority are not. Though some still share ideas that are at odds with western civilization. It'd be a bit easier to handle if these type of attitudes were only prevalent in the middle east. Nope, 50% of British muslims want gays to be put in jail, and I forget the number, but it's not a small amount that also want sharia law. I personally do not put a lot of stock in polls, but the media seems to and yet dismiss figures like that.
One other problem I see though is what I just said: a massive majority are not radicals. This is true, but the problem comes with, is it misleading....what percentage are radical? 10%? 5%? 2%? 1%? 1% sounds very small, but look at the number of muslims, over a billion. 1% of that is going to be over 10 million people. That's a lot. Let us cut it down even more, .5% is still 5 million people. Look at what 20 hijackers accomplished.
Originally posted by Surtur
He is a warlord,
Never-mind the observations that Prophet Muhammad restructured the primitive/barbaric Arabs into a major civilization and political entity? He also sought to improve the status of women in that region.
Originally posted by Surtur
he didn't like Jews,
Prophet Muhammad was such a charismatic and friendly individual that people were embracing Islam in droves after interacting with him. Unfortunately, Jews in Medina perceived Muslim immigrants as aliens and a threat to their culture and political ambitions and colluded with their enemies in Mecca (violating the terms of treaty) in order to oust/eliminate them from Medina. It was at this juncture, Surah Al-Maidah came: https://versebyversequranstudycircle.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/background-of-the-revelation-of-surah-al-maidah-ayah-51/
-- And Prophet Muhammad decided to act; he gave an ultimatum to Jewish clans to accept a new treaty (or) face banishment from Medina as punishment for violating the terms of original treaty (a large number of Jews chose the latter). However, this act of restraint would come back to haunt Muslims at a later stage when Banu Qainuqah and Banu Nadhir joined the forces of Mecca and collectively laid siege to Medina in order to eliminate its Muslim occupants in what came to be known as the Battle of Trench. To their utter shock, Muslims emerged victorious from this battle and decided to teach those jewish clans a lesson in its aftermath that led to the Battle of Ahzab (an event that is wrongfully projected in Western circles as a demonstration of persecution of innocent Jews at the hands of Muslims).
Problem is that those Jews were far from innocent and colluded with the enemies of Muslims in Mecca in order to eliminate/oust Muslims from Medina, violating the terms of treaty they had reached with Muslims earlier.
Originally posted by Surtur
he apparently married a chick at 6 and f*cked her at 9. Some of the deeds he did include murder for a variety of reasons, including "dude wrote a negative poem about me".
Originally posted by Surtur
I mentioned another story of Muhammad having all the Jews who had hit puberty in a town killed. Or his torturing a Jew to death for treasure.
Did you know that Muslims gave Banu Qainuqah a choice about the form of punishment they should receive for their crimes against Muslims?
The name Sa'ad bin Mu'az should ring bells in this case and punishment was awarded in accordance with religious beliefs of that clan.
Originally posted by Surtur
But hey the bible has some horrible shit too, it's just we don't see them acting it out as much these days and if they did people would lambaste them. I just hate the exceptions the religion seems to get. It's more acceptable to talk shit about Christians in this country than Muslims, which is weird given the majority religion here is not Islam. Or to use bizarre defenses. A muslim just blew himself up? Well shit what about the Crusades?
And why critic a religion while lacking in knowledge about its history and teachings? Fix your knowledge first and then offer your criticism. Blanket statements do not make your criticism credible and are likely to stir reaction in some quarters. 🙂
Originally posted by Surtur
There is a lot to talk about when it comes to Islam and why one might dislike it or even hate it. Think of people talking about moderate muslim countries, one I always see mentioned is Indonesia. Are you aware what you need to do if you are female and want to join the army or even become a cop? The two finger test, which is exactly like it sounds.So I guess it comes down to stuff like: the person they hold in high regard is abhorrent, society in general goes way out of it's way to make it seem taboo to question the negative aspects of Islam, and the way it is treated in regards to other religions. Oh and the treatment of gays and women is all kinds of awful, as the two finger test showed(as well as them deciding to give free bungee-less bungee jumping lessons off buildings to gays)
People can be intolerant; Islam is not. In connection with this; Muslims can be genuine (Momin) or hypocrites (Munafiqeen). The latter category is the root cause of all problems for the image of Islam and Momin in predominantly Islamic societies in general.
Quran itself warns Munafiqeen of exemplary punishments during Qiyamah: https://quran.com/63
Originally posted by Surtur
Even when a muslim is confronted with some horrible they give weird excuses. I was listening to a radio show and they read something negative from the Quran. The Muslim responded by blaming it on the translation and that it made it seem taken out of context and "made more sense in the original language". This line was about beating your wife and how I guess they are allowed to take any non-muslim as a sex slave.
Some Islamic teachings are context-constrained and others broad in their application.
Islam permits a man to employ physical methods to punish his wife under the following set of conditions:
1. Wife was found to be excessively disobedient or cheating
2. Wife was respectfully requested to mend her ways but she didn't listen
3. Separation in sleep (as punishment)
If the aforementioned conditions have been met and failed to work, then the man can strike at his wife but he is not permitted to 'injure' his wife in any case; therefore, a physical blow from a man should be an act of warning rather than a decisive blow. If nothing works than divorce is the next logical step.
It is important to understand that Islam has not made the aforementioned instructions (mandatory) to employ against a disobedient spouse. A man can opt to issue warnings and employ non-violent ways to punish a disobedient wife and/or have the right to divorce her if his marriage remains in turmoil; same goes for the woman. You are not bound to suffer if your partner is a moron.
Therefore, blowing an Islamic revelation out of proportion - does not helps an argument.
---
Slavery sounds like a strong word; captive would be the word.
Islam permits a man to marry a captive woman if she is a believer, granting her freedom and equality in this manner (Surah An-Nisa; verse 25).
Slavery was an unintended consequence of wars in ancient times. Men were likely to become a casualty in the battlefield leaving their women and children to fend for themselves afterwards. More often, victors would decide to fate of such women and children; they would either choose to slay them or to take them in slavery. Islam does not encourage slaughter of innocent and harmless individuals in the battlefield therefore taking such survivors as captives was the next logical step. However, Islam encourage its followers to take good care of slaves/captives, set them free, convert them to Islam and even marry them.
Originally posted by Surtur
Not all Muslims are radicals, a massive majority are not. Though some still share ideas that are at odds with western civilization. It'd be a bit easier to handle if these type of attitudes were only prevalent in the middle east. Nope, 50% of British muslims want gays to be put in jail, and I forget the number, but it's not a small amount that also want sharia law. I personally do not put a lot of stock in polls, but the media seems to and yet dismiss figures like that.
And remember! Freedom of expression has consequences if not exercised with care. Every society has its shares of do's and don'ts. There is not such thing as an absolute freedom of expression.
I personally find freedom-based narratives utterly misleading.
Originally posted by Surtur
One other problem I see though is what I just said: a massive majority are not radicals. This is true, but the problem comes with, is it misleading....what percentage are radical? 10%? 5%? 2%? 1%? 1% sounds very small, but look at the number of muslims, over a billion. 1% of that is going to be over 10 million people. That's a lot. Let us cut it down even more, .5% is still 5 million people. Look at what 20 hijackers accomplished.