Amazing? Why?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
We are making some progress. 👆

Your suspicion is surprisingly correct. I can attest to it based on my personal experiences and what I have observed.

Every Muslim should invest time in learning Islam in its true spirit but this is not possible if one does not bothers to understand Quran in a proper way, its composition and the contexts behind its Surah. However, this is time-consuming effort and many tend to consult the literature body of Hadith for quick references and guidance in practice. However, understanding Quran is important for self-awareness and to establish consensus in matters pertaining to the religion in question.

Selective reading is the root cause of all problems and creates room for violent interpretations as you put.

Quran is not about statistics. Every verse carry weight but its context should be understood. As I pointed out earlier, selective reading is a problem. If one is to consider selective reading, why bother to compile all of it into a single coherent form of literature?

If you are reading a book, you should read it in full to understand what it is all about. Only than you will be in the position to correctly evaluate it.

A large number of versus in Quran are merely descriptions of behavior of people and warnings to disbelievers to mend their ways or they will pay the price during an event known as "Day of Judgement." Such warnings extend to apostates as well. However, Quran does not authorize Muslims to take action against apostates unless they engage in politics against Islam. Once again, a conditional matter.

As for women; you may need to go through Surah al-Nisa: https://quran.com/4

It is like a charter of rights of women and orphans, a rarity in religious texts otherwise.

General explanation here: http://www.islamswomen.com/articles/women_in_quran_and_sunnah.php

Islam actually advances the notions of civility and peaceful society.

Generally, a good post except you need to use verses instead of versus.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
We are making some progress. 👆

😂 If you're trying to convince me of the viability of Islam, no, we absolutely haven't! 😂

Because nothing about the religion of Islam is going to convince any semi-rational person that it is a viable set of beliefs to pattern one's life around. It's still bogus nonsense, in fact, looking at it in its historical context gives it even less relevance to the present day and simply proves that it should only be studied like any other piece of historical literature and not as a moral guide. If you look at it historically it was ramblings of a warlord turned into a religion. How anyone could think it's a viable moral guide is beyond me.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
A large number of versus in Quran are merely descriptions of behavior of people and warnings to disbelievers to mend their ways or they will pay the price during an event known as "Day of Judgement.".

Something that Christians believe also. And they are equally certain of their divine truth. So both can't be right. So more than likely both are wrong.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
However, Quran does not authorize Muslims to take action against apostates unless they engage in politics against Islam.

Can't you at least admit a little that that is sort of dangerous to a civil society? That means nothing can oppose Islam, and the only possibility is Islamic theocracy. And we know what that means, subjugation of women and beheadings. Yaayy!!

فتاة اسرائيلية تصدم الجمهور بجمالها فيصدمها ذاكر نايك بكل ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lga03OHRWNg
يابانية ملحدة تشتم نبينا محمد أمام آلاف المسلمين فيأتيها ال ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KacC_2i3xQ

13.
Rasulullah (SallallahuAlaihiWasallam) was going to Eid Salah, while going to Eid Salah, All the Sahabah were walking and they were all saying the Takbeer. "Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar". And the streets of Medina Munawara were echoing in "Allahu Akbar".

Everyone was excited and dressed nicely and everyone had their perfume on. Rasulullah (SallallahuAlaihiWasallam) while walking to the Eid Salah he sees this young child sitting on the side, And this young child has his face buried on his hand and he's crying away.
Rasulullah (Sallallahu AlaihiWasallam) stopped and told the companions" You guys continue, I'm coming".

He went to the child, he sat next to him on the side of the street, And he patted him on the back and he said
" Young child why are you crying?"
So the young child says that" Today is the day of Eid...And all the young children are holding their fathers hand and their going for their Eid Salah. My father was Matyred on the battle of Uhad, I have no father, theirs no fathers hand I can hold". And he sat there crying on the side of the street. And he said "Leave me alone, let me sit here and cry while the rest of the world enjoys itself".

Rasulullah (Sallallahu AlaihiWasallam) Said to this child "If you are crying, Muhammad will also not celebrate the day of Eid".
Rasulullah (SallallahuAlaihiWasallam) held the child's hand and he said while all the children are holding the hands of their fathers you will hold the hands of Muhammad (SallallahuAlaihiWasallam). And from today onwards you will never say you do not have a father. From today onwards Muhammed is your father and Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) is your mother.

And Rasulullah (SallallahuAlaihiWasallam) walked with the child all the way up to the Eid Salaah and when Rasulullah (SallallahuAlaihiWasallam) was giving the Khutbah, He had this child sit on his thigh (in one narration he had the child sit on his shoulders).
This is the Mercy of Rasulullah (SallallahuAlaihiWasallam)

فتاة تستفز ذاكر نايك بشده في سؤال محرج لكن الشيخ تدارك نفسه وقصف جبهتها !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc2XPqsMtko

بروفيسورة تتحدى ذاكر نايك وتقول له اثبت انني على خطأ وسوف ادخل الاسلام .. تحدي خطير جداً !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMVEBe-MBjQ

Originally posted by eninn
YouTube video

And behold... more gibberish nonsense from unholy books and delusional people.

How about this, eninn... Whatcha think about this...

YouTube video

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
😂 If you're trying to convince me of the viability of Islam, no, we absolutely haven't! 😂

Because nothing about the religion of Islam is going to convince any semi-rational person that it is a viable set of beliefs to pattern one's life around. It's still bogus nonsense, in fact, looking at it in its historical context gives it even less relevance to the present day and simply proves that it should only be studied like any other piece of historical literature and not as a moral guide. If you look at it historically it was ramblings of a warlord turned into a religion. How anyone could think it's a viable moral guide is beyond me.

Islam reformed (pagan/primitive) Arabs and reorganized them into a major civilization. Islamic social order rests upon the values of brotherhood, morality, discipline, justice, human rights and role-model governance - this was a major leap in values and 'way of life' of pagan Arabs.

Learn more from here:

http://history-world.org/islam.htm (neutral source)

http://www.questionsonislam.com/question/how-was-life-arabian-peninsula-islam-could-you-please-give-information-about-belief-systems

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Something that Christians believe also. And they are equally certain of their divine truth. So both can't be right. So more than likely both are wrong.

Million dollar question is - why so many [unrelated] figures stressed upon the existence of oneness of Cosmic God and challenged the prevalent status-quo of belief in multiple deities during their times? Why put your life at risk for this matter? Its a long unrelated pattern and does not seems to be a mere coincidence.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Can't you at least admit a little that that is sort of dangerous to a civil society? That means nothing can oppose Islam, and the only possibility is Islamic theocracy. And we know what that means, subjugation of women and beheadings. Yaayy!!

Islam is flexible in the matters of statehood (whom we choose to be the leader and how) - Islam can work in tandem with "democracy."

Islamic social order is really good for ensuring a peaceful and moralistic environment - which is good for any society.

Subjugation of women? I cited Surah An-Nisa in this thread which is an Islamic charter of human rights - you may need to go through it.

References:

http://www.islamweb.net/womane/nindex.php?page=readart&id=177693

http://usir.salford.ac.uk/14814/1/361089.pdf (PDF format)

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2upefv/the_status_of_women_in_preislamic_arabia/

---

Now, shall I point out "cultural sexual objectification and exploitation" of women under the banner of human rights in modern societies and its implications? I think I should:

https://www.unicefusa.org/stories/not-object-sexualization-and-exploitation-women-and-girls/30361

http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/appsych/opus/issues/2016/spring/rooney (Implications discussed)

http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/06/men-taught-to-objectify-women/ (Western culture today)

http://www.mrc.org/articles/american-teens-heavily-involved-sex-alcohol-drugs-smoking (Western culture today)

Trafficking of women for the purpose of sexual exploitation in Europe (Downloadable research paper - google it)

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/07/study-proof-that-we-sexually-objectify-women/260339/

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/05/study-the-objectification-of-women-is-a-real-measurable-phenomenon/257504/

Women do have rights in modern societies and trafficking is deemed illegal but cultural objectification and exploitation continue. Problem is that layer upon layer of "women protection bills" are being added to the already inflated constitution without realization that cultural objectification and exploitation is one of the fundamental causes of rape and relationship crises*.

*Institution of marriage is also in decline over the years in mostly democratic societies today because the ancient pagan custom of cohabitation is replacing it - a byproduct of a hyper-sexualized societies where cultural objectification of women and sexual pursuits are norm.

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-36783830

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/the-decline-in-marriage-and-the-need-for-more-purposeful-parenthood/ (implications discussed)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/06/brexit-opportunity-reverse-tragic-decline-marriage-britain/

http://uvamagazine.org/articles/the_marriage_crisis

Some people are becoming desensitized to such issues which is alarming.

Keep one thing in mind - decline in morality is [one of] the fundamental causes of why a state loses its power, identity and importance over the course of years. This is a pattern in history.

https://realtruth.org/articles/070831-002-ssoafn.html

http://www.freemaninstitute.com/RTGdecline.htm

http://www.novelguide.com/reportessay/science/social-science/moral-decline-and-its-effect-collapse-nations

http://www.charlescarrinministries.com/newsletter/joseph-stalin%E2%80%99s-power-in-american-politics

US is well on its course to decline in all walks of society - it can be course-corrected but are its citizens willing?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Why anybody has to "oppose" Islam? Islam does not "impose" either.

Because Islam is a set of ideas. And in a free society ideas have to be open to criticism. Nothing is too sacred to criticize in a truly free society.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Islam can work in tandem with "democracy."

Oh lord... I think it's pretty clear that that's not the case.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Islamic social order is really good for ensuring a peaceful and moralistic environment - which is good for any society.

😂

So Saudi Arabia is a bastion of peace and justice? 😘

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Because Islam is a set of ideas. And in a free society ideas have to be open to criticism. Nothing is too sacred to criticize in a truly free society.

Oh lord... I think it's pretty clear that that's not the case.

😂

So Saudi Arabia is a bastion of peace and justice? 😘

I really like the point made at the end of #6 in this video:

YouTube video

You can blame their grievances on whatever you want...politics, etc. But it's their religion that causes them to handle those grievances in the manner in which they do.

Originally posted by Surtur
You can blame their grievances on whatever you want...politics, etc. But it's their religion that causes them to handle those grievances in the manner in which they do.

Yeah, that seems like a pretty obvious point that douche-bags like Reza Aslan just lie about. God he is annoying at hell the way he just peddles all these false conceptions of atheism and straight-up lies about Sam Harris' views. He is nauseating. Sam Harris is way too nice in defending himself. He should come straight out and call Reza a liar.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Yeah, that seems like a pretty obvious point that douche-bags like Reza Aslan just lie about. God he is annoying at hell the way he just peddles all these false conceptions of atheism and straight-up lies about Sam Harris' views. He is nauseating. Sam Harris is way too nice in defending himself. He should come straight out and call Reza a liar.

Yep and unfortunately this is an increasing trend with Islam: bend over backwards to place the blame on anything but religion.