Void/Sentry vs Darkseid...

@philosophia : Strangely I can't quote you...

Voidtry in the "what if ? 200" actually rampaged the Universe.

However YEARS before his fight against Molecule Man, Sentry was already presented as an equal of House Of M Scarlet Witch.

Even if the writers decided not to make him triggers another House Of M, he showed to have enough power to swat efforlessly the Molecule Man...

That's pretty much above anything that Darkseid has shown. Still better than giving 1/5 of his power to Dr Fate against the anti-life equation...

On top of that :

- Stan Lee said that Sentry had the power to destroy the Marvel Universe (not just the Earth-616, literally the Marvel Universe).

- Dr Strange that Sentry could destroy the Universe.

- Bendis said on his site that he is using Sentry the same way that Jenkins did.

- Civil War Files (the stuff I posted) : Sentry is at least on par with HOM Scarlet Witch when it comes to his reality warping powers (and that makes sense as he retconned the Marvel Universe)

- Civil War Battle Damage Report : Sentry is said to have the ability for Unlimited Psionic Ability.

- Dark Avengers : Sentry get killed 3 times against Molecule Man, understand that he can warp the reality (Bendis said in an interview that Sentry don't have molecule manipulation, just that he believe he has) and swat Molecule Man like a fly.

- Uncanny Avengers : Rogue with the power of all Earth Heroes try and fail to even slow down Exitar. Sentry comes and block Exitar's descent. After Exitar's death, Sentry fly the body away at FTL speeds.

That pretty summarize how powerful the Sentry is for Marvel.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Voidtry in the "what if ? 200" actually rampaged the Universe.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Even if the writers decided not to make him triggers another House Of M, he showed to have enough power to swat efforlessly the Molecule Man...

The rest are statements or random feats that have nothing to do with what I asked.

Sentry has no feat even close to destroying 1/5th of the Universe. Hell, he doesn't even have feats to prove even 0.0001% of that power. Darkseid stomps.

You better erase your post, because if somebody sees that you said Sentry is HOM Wanda level, you'll be laughed out of this board.

@philosophia :

THIS "what if" showed the Sentry being in a different mental state and that's only what matter as it is the only difference between the two Universes...

Molecule Man wasn't weakened.

Your scan comes from an UNofficial source. It's like taking the words from some random people on internet without proofs.

The rest aren't statements. That's part of the story and shows how powerful the Sentry is.

Darkseid struggle against Superman-like beings when Sentry is unstoppable and they have to ask him gently to erase his own memories to stop being a threat to the Universe.

I will not erase my post.

You are the one using a non-canon scan coming from your ass when I directly quote official interviews from the writers, authors, editors and the official handbooks of the Marvel Universe too.

The sentence that I posted above comes from the Civil War Files and directly quote the Sentry being on par with HOM Wanda...

Which is the opinion of Tony Stark after YEARS analyzing the Sentry as a teamate and redacting that report for the President of the USA to be aware of the threat.

The opinion of the people of that forum is weigthless and so is yours.

By the way the fight between Darkseid and the anti-monitor is barely planetary when Sentry and Photon holding back directly threaten several solar-systems at least..

Talking about feats Darseid didn't even destroy 1/5 of the Universe either. He was just a battery to Dr Fate...

PLANETARY :

MULTI-PLANETS BUSTING WHILE HOLDING BACK :

Sentry stomps, bub.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
@philosophia :

THIS "what if" showed the Sentry being in a different mental state and that's only what matter as it is the only difference between the two Universes

Originally posted by RealityWarper
[B]Molecule Man wasn't weakened.

Your scan comes from an UNofficial source. It's like taking the words from some random people on internet without proofs.

It's fact that Molecule Man wasn't anywhere near his full power - no matter what your rabid fanboysm dictates.

Sentry being as powerful as HOM Wanda is ridiculous, rampant fanboysm. Show me feats of his even close to that level, and then we'll talk.

Stop these delusions.

In the meantime, Darkseid is far more powerful based on demonstrated feats. 1/5th of the Universe is at the low-end of his capabilities, given the fact that he was arguably the most powerful of the group of 5.

@ Philosophia :

[quote=]What Ifs have no bearing on the 616 characters powerlevel. Never have, never will. Alternate Universes.

I guess Black Bolt would kill Sentry:

https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-19e9176184a576e711bf125e53f97f48?convert_to_webp=true

I can't talk to you if you can't even grasp that concept. [/quote]

The "what if" I'm talking about ESPECIALLY state that the difference between his Universe and Sentry's Earth-616 is ONLY Sentry's mental state.

At the end of it, Uatu the Watcher from Earth-616 speak with the Watcher of this reality about the threat represented by the Sentry.

I can't speak with you if you don't understand the concept.

THIS "what if" showed the Sentry being in a different mental state and that's only what matter as it is the only difference between the two Universes

What Ifs have no bearing on the 616 characters powerlevel. Never have, never will. Alternate Universes.

I guess Black Bolt would kill Sentry:

https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-19e9176184a576e711bf125e53f97f48?convert_to_webp=true

I can't talk to you if you can't even grasp that concept.

Molecule Man's powerlevel is dependent on his mental state - something which the bio I posted corroborates.

Wrong.

Molecule Man's power-level depends ONLY of the inhibitions he places upon his powers. His mental state doesn't matter at all.

It is literally stated in ALL Official Marvel Handbooks that the only thing that limitates Molecule Man's powers are the limits that he places upon his powers, NOT his mental state...

By the way I would like that you cite the issue of the Marvel Handbook you are refering to, just for the laugh. 🙂

It's fact that Molecule Man wasn't anywhere near his full power - no matter what your rabid fanboysm dictates.

It's quite the opposite.

I'm literally quoting OFFICIAL SOURCES while you are using fan-fictions posted over the internet...

You accusations of me being a "rabid fanboy" sounds ridiculous when you literally ignore what happened in Dark Avengers.

Owen had no restrictions placed upon his powers. There is literally not a single moment when Owen said that he can't do something. Quite the opposite even when Sentry dominates him, Owen yells "I control the molecules ! I DO !"...

Sentry being as powerful as HOM Wanda is ridiculous, rampant fanboysm. Show me feats of his even close to that level, and then we'll talk.

I guess that Tony Stark AKA Iron Man is a Sentry fanboy then, as is Moonstone because both said the same thing about the Sentry.

I'm just quoting their own analysis of the character, that's not my opinion but the one of a very expert like Tony Stark.

Stop these delusions.

Ok, bub. Actually read the comics and then we talk.

I guess that Stan Lee is a Sentry fanboy and various comics books writers whom write him are delusional too. 😉

In the meantime, Darkseid is far more powerful based on demonstrated feats. 1/5th of the Universe is at the low-end of his capabilities, given the fact that he was arguably the most powerful of the group of 5.

Sentry stalemated Photon, who's arguably Universal without a scratch when Darkseid fighting Anti-monitor is barely a planetary menace...

Thanks for showing that Darkseid is easily 5 times weaker than an Universal-being.

I can see the very definition of a "rabid fanboyism" when you literally ignore the canon material I provide and hide yourself behind a passive-aggressive attitude and the use of a fan-made material you are incapable to track the true origin.

Congratulations, bub.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
The "what if" I'm talking about ESPECIALLY state that the difference between his Universe and Sentry's Earth-616 is ONLY Sentry's mental state.

From the rules of this forum:

No Non-canon Sources
Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

Continue ignoring the rules of the forum or, really, common sense, and you will be dealt with by the moderators.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Molecule Man's power-level depends ONLY of the inhibitions he places upon his powers. His mental state doesn't matter at all. [/B]

Here's the comics themselves directly calling your statement as moronic, lying bullshit:

"Mental state fluctuated enough to make his powerlevel manageable"

😂

Using what ifs?
Saying that Sentry is HoM Scarlet Witch level?
Ignoring evidence directly reffering to his fight with Sentry that he is weakened?

Lying about what the comics say?

Holy shit dude, that's certainly the last post I'll read of you.

All what-Ifs have a difference that diverges them from the main-timeline. That doesn't make them any more relevant.

The what if literally explains that the ONLY difference between two stories is Sentry's mental state.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23992/4762916-sentrycontext2what-if-%23200-005-06.jpg

Continue ignoring the rules of the forum or, really, common sense, and you will be dealt with by the moderators.

Go whine to the mods.

That's the only thing that you can do besides using fishy scans from non-canon sources and out-of-context material.

Jesus Christ dude, do you even read comics?

I do and you don't.

That's why you pick only the "informations" that suits your fandom and ignore the other.

Here's the comics themselves directly calling your statement as moronic, lying bullshit: "Mental state fluctuated enough to make his powerlevel manageable"

It was previous to Molecule Man's inprisonement to the Raft and after his failure and re-conquering Masha.

He argably let the Shield put him in jail as it is flat out stated in the Dark Reign Files that he had mental inhibitions at this time and that's the only thing that weakens his powers. NOT his mental state.

On top of that I already posted the scan from the same source that you are using out-of-context that Molecule Man's powers are only affected by his beliefs on his abilities from the New Avengers Most Wanted Files.

Too bad you didn't know it comes from the same source.

laughing out loud

You can laugh.

You don't know jack squat about the material you are using.

You can't even cite your sources. LULZ.

Pathetic attemps.

Using what ifs?

Highly justified in that case as both reality are exactly similar besides Sentry's mental state in both.

Saying that Sentry is HoM Scarlet Witch level?

Go whine to Tony Stark.

I don't care about what you think.

Ignoring evidence directly reffering to his fight with Sentry that he is weakened?

He wasn't.

The very scan in green that you posted about "Owen's mental state" happened YEARS before Cilvil War and a looong time before Dark Avengers.

You don't even know that the same source directly quote Molecule Man's powers being "LIMITED ONLY BY HIS BELIEFS ON HIS ABILITIES" which literally dissipates any doubt you could have about the way Owen's mental state interfere with his powers.

On top of that the very Dark Avenger's comicsdirectly shows that Owen got rid of the limitations he imposed upon his powers during the time he was a prisoner.

Lying about what the comics say?

I don't but you keep posting that "control rod" shit that don't comes from a Marvel Comics nor from a Official Marvel Handbook.

Holy shit dude, that's certainly the last post I'll read of you.

Too bad really. I will not sleep that night.

As it's the last post you will read of me at least :

1) Try to put some effort as fiding official sources when you are trying to debate.

2) Stop picking the informations from handbooks like the New Avengers Most Wanted Files when you didn't read the whole scan that state itself that Molecule Man's powers are only limited by the beliefs that Owen places on his abilties.

What ifs are not proof in the CBVF, unless it's stated in the OP.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
The what if literally explains that the ONLY difference between two stories is Sentry's mental state.

And frankly, if desperately clinging to a What If is your best source of evidence, then you may want to rethink your stance. srsly

Originally posted by Galan007
What Ifs are always meant to be similar to the 616 stories they mirror... That certainly doesn't make them canon, nor does it make them usable on the forum(as clearly outlined in the rules.)

And frankly, if desperately clinging to a What If is your best source of evidence, then you may want to rethink your stance. srsly

Originally posted by Galan007
What Ifs are always meant to be similar to the 616 stories they mirror... That certainly doesn't make them canon, nor does it make them usable on the forum(as clearly outlined in the rules.)

And frankly, if desperately clinging to a What If is your best source of evidence, then you may want to rethink your stance. srsly

It's one of the MANY sources of evidences that I quoted in my previous posts.

It's not the role of the moderators, nor of the posters of KMC to decide what is canon and what isn't.

The end of the story is literally a warning from the Watcher from this dimension to the Watcher of the Earth-616 and that's more than enough to make it a reliable source.

That's still better than the fake scan about the "control rod" that you have spread on this forum by the way.

I'm pretty sure that using a fan-fictive source is against the rules.

So far, by feats, Sentry already stomps Darkseid in every imaginable ways.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
It's not the role of the moderators, nor of the posters of KMC to decide what is canon and what isn't.

@philosophia :

I believed it was your last answer to my post.

So far I'm waiting for you to quote the sources that you posted

Oh wait ! You don't know where they come from ! 😄

Originally posted by RealityWarper
It's not the role of the moderators, nor of the posters of KMC to decide what is canon and what isn't.

Marvel(the company) officially lists What Ifs as alternate universes. IOW, they are non-canon to 616/mainstream continuity. Because of this, the mods here at KMC came up with a perfectly logical rule stating that What If material is inadmissible on the forums, unless otherwise specified in the OP.

At this point you're arguing just to argue. Bada already laid the rules out for you personally... If you have an issue, I suggest PM'ing him directly instead of continuing to spam this thread with irrelevancy. 🙂

What Ifs aren't allowed unless stated by the OP.

We have rules about canonicity and continuity on this board, please follow them.

To RealityWarper about erasing Darkseid from existence, Darkseid has already done that.

Go and read The Great Darkness Saga. In that Saga, an older version of Darkseid pull a younger version of himself into the future. Darkseid the douche that he is killed his older self.

Why you ask? Am glad you ask that question!

He did that because there can be only one Darkseid. Darkseid is such a douche that he refuses to share the spot light with even himself. Not a copy, not an alternate version, but hes older self.

Now before you say that wasn't reality warping, you need to think about this first. A younger version of Darkseid killed an older version of himself, thus creating a paradox. That means with the Older Darkseid dying, then the Younger version of Darkseid should by all means die, since he never lived long enough to summon his younger self to the future.

MM was never at full powered or even close to it, his mental state restricted him from his normal level which are above sky father and elder gods in raw power, down to low to mid trans to the point even VOid could hang and defeat him, plus Owen wanted to lose he wanted to be punish.

His evil self Evil Molecule Man his most powerful form battled Beyonder to the point the Multiverse would've collapse upon itself. And this version of Molecule Man is mentally resticted by Owen

Originally posted by Galan007
Cool.

Marvel(the company) officially lists What Ifs as alternate universes. IOW, they are non-canon to 616/mainstream continuity. Because of this, the mods here at KMC came up with a perfectly logical rule stating that What If material is inadmissible on the forums, unless otherwise specified in the OP.

At this point you're arguing just to argue. Bada already laid the rules out for you personally... If you have an issue, I suggest PM'ing him directly instead of continuing to spam this thread with irrelevancy. 🙂

I'm not arguing just to argue.

I already pointed out Sentry's feat and they are all above anything what darkseid did.

Originally posted by -Pr-
What Ifs aren't allowed unless stated by the OP.

We have rules about canonicity and continuity on this board, please follow them.

I know and I do but let me question you about one thing :

1) As far as I know a battle between two characters in a battle forum is supposed to have both characters fighting at their best without being weakened in any away by a plot story.

In Siege, Voidtry was suicidal and Bendis precised that he let himself be killed by the heroes and that wouldn't happen otherwise.

2) The alternate version of this story (in the what if) which isn't driven by a plot device to let Marvel continue to use his heroes shows the Voidtry in a normal state of mind, rested, and able to kill all heroes on Earth without trying...

So my question is :

Do we use the Voidtry in 1) whom don't match the setting of the battle forum which isn't driven by the plot of a story; OR 2) do we add the feats of the "what if'" which shows EXACTLY the same character in EXACTLY the same Universe not restricted by the plot and acting according to the hypothetical fight of the battle forum ?

Originally posted by SquallX
To RealityWarper about erasing Darkseid from existence, Darkseid has already done that.

Go and read The Great Darkness Saga. In that Saga, an older version of Darkseid pull a younger version of himself into the future. Darkseid the douche that he is killed his older self.

Why you ask? Am glad you ask that question!

He did that because there can be only one Darkseid. Darkseid is such a douche that he refuses to share the spot light with even himself. Not a copy, not an alternate version, but hes older self.

Now before you say that wasn't reality warping, you need to think about this first. A younger version of Darkseid killed an older version of himself, thus creating a paradox. That means with the Older Darkseid dying, then the Younger version of Darkseid should by all means die, since he never lived long enough to summon his younger self to the future.

Marty McFly did a time paradox too in "Back to the future" and have no meaning to beat the Sentry as his feats are below the power required for that kind of situation EXACTLY like Darkseid.

Originally posted by the Darkone
MM was never at full powered or even close to it, his mental state restricted him from his normal level which are above sky father and elder gods in raw power, down to low to mid trans to the point even VOid could hang and defeat him, plus Owen wanted to lose he wanted to be punish.

His evil self Evil Molecule Man his most powerful form battled Beyonder to the point the Multiverse would've collapse upon itself. And this version of Molecule Man is mentally resticted by Owen

A) The story and the Dark Reign Files among the handbooks refering to the Molecule Man proves that Molecule Man was at the best of his power during that story.

Molecule Man never wanted to loose. The constructs he made accused him to do so and he answered that's not what he wanted.

B) The Evil-self is less powerful than the one whom faced the Sentry. Kubik confirms it in the Fantastic Four Annual #27.

If only you could reality warp these guys to accept the truth. They're in desperate need of a reality check

Originally posted by One Big Mob
If only you could reality warp these guys to accept the truth. They're in desperate need of a reality check