Void/Sentry vs Darkseid...

RealityWarper, this is the 3rd time a mod has told you that "What ifs" are not considered proof, unless the thread specifies a "what if" version. End of story. So either debate within the rules or stop posting.

No Non-canon Sources
Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

A canon source is one that is regarded as being 'in continuity'. In the example of Star Trek; instances from the series and movies can be used, but books are definitely out. Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!).

This includes JLA/Avengers. Canon or not, people just aren't going to agree on it in most cases. Besides, there should be plenty of other comics with which to make your point.

Comics released strictly online or on web sites will not be considered proof in the Comic Book Versus Forum.

An obscure interview given by someone involved in a story arc is not proof to refute feats. Neither is a random post by a supposed writer on a message board, blogs, tweets, etc. There have been too many of these so called interviews which go against what's shown on panel. Especially when there is no dialogue to refute what's happening on panel. Most writers are clear with the intentions of the plot and story arc.

This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Darkseid kills him with one hit of his Omega Beams.

Originally posted by Badabing
RealityWarper, this is the 3rd time a mod has told you that "What ifs" are not considered proof, unless the thread specifies a "what if" version. End of story. So either debate within the rules or stop posting.

I understood. I will not talk about the "what if" again.

What for my other arguments ?

I argued about plenty of Sentry's feats and they are canon (from the mainstream) and therefore within the rules.

*EDIT*

By the way the "CONTROL ROD" scan is not from a canon source, not even from Marvel so how comes it's not moderated the same way the "what if" are ?

Real War, you know that guy you're arguing against; Phildosophtpenis? Well it'd get hard if you were under 14.

That's why he seems so creepy and deceiving. He lies so he open holes in "arguments" that he plans to fillPhil. Keep exposing him so he doesn't do the same to you and drag you to his van.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Real War, you know that guy you're arguing against; Phildosophtpenis? Well it'd get hard if you were under 14.

That's why he seems so creepy and deceiving. He lies so he open holes in "arguments" that he plans to fillPhil. Keep exposing him so he doesn't do the same to you and drag you to his van.

He already showed me his "control rod". It's his own made-up material.

I am scared.

Originally posted by RealityWarper

A) The story and the Dark Reign Files among the handbooks refering to the Molecule Man
proves that Molecule Man was at the best of his power during that story.

Molecule Man never wanted to loose.

The constructs he made accused him to do so and he answered that's not what he wanted.

B) The Evil-self is less powerful than the one whom faced the Sentry.
Kubik confirms it in the Fantastic Four Annual #27.

Originally posted by Mr Master
lmfao

Originally posted by RealityWarper
However YEARS before his fight against Molecule Man, Sentry was already presented as an equal of House Of M Scarlet Witch.

Even if the writers decided not to make him triggers another House Of M, he showed to have enough power to swat efforlessly the Molecule Man...

- Civil War Files (the stuff I posted) : Sentry is at least on par with HOM Scarlet Witch when it comes to his reality warping powers (and that makes sense as he retconned the Marvel Universe)

@Philosophia :

That's the words of Tony Stark, National Secretary of Defense.

It is literally written in black and white.

But your opinion probably weight more than Tony Stark's opinion on the matter, right ?

"[...]since such an overload could have easily triggered a psionic outburst to remake the world more openly and gives us another House of M to deal with".

In short, Sentry has the power to trigger another House Of M therefore he is at least as powerful as House of M Scarlet Witch.

For the record that's one of the report that Tony Stark made to the President of the USA to evaluate the threats during the Civil War.

That's 100 % reliable.

It's the "feel-good" thread of the year. 😐

Originally posted by Juntai
🤣

First off, your scans don't work.

Also, that's cool, but . . .

Let's see Nemesis hang reality in suspension because of his combat speed.
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-3494468
Mind you, that's the slowest Flash. And among the slowest of the speedsters in general. Even Supes, Wonderwoman, Max, Jesse and Johnny, etc are typically faster than Jay.

Wally auto snapping into superspeed notices and then begins fighting Savitar's ninjas so fast reality suspends;
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/WallyWestRespect/savnin.jpg
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/WallyWestRespect/savnin2.jpg

Wally is borrowing speed here, but its so he can have 0-Lightspeed acceleration to keep up with Zoom. They've circled the Earth a dozen times, and throw punches with each 1000 miles. 25k miles around the planet, is over 300 swings in less than a second while running nearly twice the speed of light. Once again, reality is frozen to them across the globe.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113402/3647633-flash-only-01.jpg

Punches Alchemy 100s of times per second. These appear as single strikes on panel.
http://imgur.com/a/8nlZP

100 love-taps in a second.
http://i.imgur.com/rKmTk1x.jpg

Wally vs Zoom, from a standoff, he takes off and Wally reacts and runs him down, Zoom hits him with vibrating hand, and Wally fires back, already moving at lightspeed, he ends the fight in less than one trillionth of a second.
http://imgur.com/a/Hgvem

But you're right, Nemesis has better combat speed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Did this guy just said that Flash is slowed than a street leveler?

Heck, even mach 1 Flash could throw hundreds of thousands of punches in one panel.

This guy is best ignored at this point.

👆

For me you need pre crisis Darkseid for this to even be a fight. The problem is that Darkseid would have trouble fully destroying Sentry to the point he couldn't reform.

On the other hand there is actually very little Sentry could do to harm PC Darkseid. Both have powerful mental abilities as well. Darkseid can hold entire planets inside his mind somehow and swap them out into different sections of space.

I suppose Darkseid could possibly win via use of mental powers. Mentally enslaving billions of superhumans at once is a bit more impressive then Sentry wiping his existence away from the minds of people on Earth.

Originally posted by RealityWarper

In short, Sentry has the power to trigger another House Of M therefore he is at least as powerful as House of M Scarlet Witch.

That's an empty statement regarding "HOM" which isn't indicative to Wanda's power.
Perhaps they're referring to just planet Earth, which is nice, but infinitely beneath Wanda.

The only other option is pure hyperbole!

When Sentry begins to affect an entire universe, or stalemate/defeat a universal power,
he'll start touching HOM Wanda's toes.

Originally posted by RealityWarper

For the record that's one of the report that Tony Stark made to the President of the USA to evaluate the threats during the Civil War.

That's 100 % reliable.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Dude, let's start with Sentry destroying Galaxies,
or defeating a foe who can, before we get ahead of ourselves.

That's an empty statement regarding "HOM" which isn't indicative to Wanda's power.
Perhaps they're referring to just planet Earth, which is nice, but infinitely beneath Wanda.

The only other option is pure hyperbole!

When Sentry begins to affect an entire universe, or stalemate/defeat a universal power,
he'll start touching HOM Wanda's toes.

facepalm ... only thing that's "100% reliable" ... is an actual feat. 👆

Tony Stark was in charge of the National Defense so that's more than just a statement.

A statement is like "let's see how do you feel after one hundred thousands blow" when the character hit his target only once. That is pure hyperbole.

Sentry wasted Molecule Man effortlessly when he understood that he can manipulate the reality, that's more than enough to show him far above the Cosmic Cube-beings.

On top of that Sentry did it under his own power.
HOM Wanda was amped by the Life Force when she warped the omniverse and she has a 20 % unreliability factor.

It seems that you don't make the difference between a statement and an information given by Marvel, once more, to show how the character is powerful.

It's not like Sentry have been stated to have a limitless power in the Handbooks, bub.

Lol this is coming from the guy who said he doesn't care about statements. Like shadowdragon being speed of through.

Double standard?

Originally posted by RealityWarper

Tony Stark was in charge of the National Defense so that's more than just a statement..

Originally posted by RealityWarper

Sentry wasted Molecule Man effortlessly when he understood that he can manipulate the reality,

that's more than enough to show him far above the Cosmic Cube-beings.

Owen was severely de-powered during Dark Reign.
He could only warp molecules at close range.
Owen wasn't even a global power. (stated on panel) Literally, only the molecules around him.

Oh, and, Owen never warped "reality" during Dark Reign.

You're confusing mentally stable Owen showings with this hindered Dark Reign Owen, who was not mentally stable.

lol, at your notion that Sentry/Void is not only above, but "far" above Cube beings,
even considering that Owen unleashed is truly far above Cube beings.

I think he just doesn't "get it".
Maybe if somebody would be willing to post examples of what is and what is not "canon".
As well as the types and hierchy of evidence that can be presented in defense of an argument.
Statements by characters, statements by writers, narration, on-panel feats, etc.

Once he understands, there is no more wiggle-room. In Monopoly, you can't buy a Railroad from Jail, no matter how much you want to. And nobody is going to let you, no matter how much you argue your point.

Originally posted by Horrificus
I think he just doesn't "get it".
Maybe if somebody would be willing to post examples of what is and what is not "canon".
As well as the types and hierchy of evidence that can be presented in defense of an argument.
Statements by characters, statements by writers, narration, on-panel feats, etc.

Once he understands, there is no more wiggle-room. In Monopoly, you can't buy a Railroad from Jail, no matter how much you want to. And nobody is going to let you, no matter how much you argue your point.

He is a poster full of fallacies, whenever you point them out to him, he just tries to wiggle his way out.

Not worth the time

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Lol this is coming from the guy who said he doesn't care about statements. Like shadowdragon being speed of through.

Double standard?

Because that's not a statement.

Especially when you lolstomp a Cosmic Cube-being at full power without breaking a sweat.

On topic, I'm glad that you guys don't make the difference between new 52 Barry Allen and the other post-crisis Flashs.
Nice that you post a picture when Flash just do one flurry of 7 punches and 1 single punch in the next panel, that totally don't look like an hyperbolic statement from a character used to overhype his abilities.

Originally posted by Mr Master
A meaningless statement, which is even vague in it's purpose.

😐 ...

Owen was severely de-powered during Dark Reign.
He could only warp molecules at close range.
Owen wasn't even a global power. (stated on panel) Literally, only the molecules around him.

Oh, and, Owen never warped "reality" during Dark Reign.

You're confusing mentally stable Owen showings with this hindered Dark Reign Owen, who was not mentally stable.

lol, at your notion that Sentry/Void is not only above, but "far" above Cube beings,
even considering that Owen unleashed is truly far above Cube beings.

It's not a statement, it's an official report from Tony Stark, in charge of the National Security, to the President of the USA.

Do you understand the meaning of the word "context" ?

Owen wasn't depowered in the slightest.

You obviously don't understand how is abilities works.

His abilities are only affected by the limitations he places upon them and Owen had no mental inhibitions during that arc.

Nope, Owen stated that he wanted to stay alone in his town and therefore only affected people coming into it, that's all about the "limited range".

He didn't "limit" the range of his abilities, he chosen to limitate his influence to the range of the city.

Owen said that he affect the molecules around him but not that he can't affect the molecules far away. That's a CRUCIAL difference of perspective.

Owen was always unstable, that's part of the character. The only time he is stable is when he explains his true origins to Dr Doom and it doesn't matter because that's NOT what affect his powers.

There is literally ALL marvel official handbooks + the stories that back-up what I just said.

If you want to make a case for Owen, I advise you to take the proper informations about the character.

And yes :

Sentry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Owen Reece >>>>>>>>>>> Other Cosmic Cube-beings.

Good job at ignoring the other ones. I couldn't expect less from you 👆

And lol at sentry being equal to peak owen.

Btw 52 Flash is the same flash as pre flashpoint and this flash does not tap into the speed force like wally, barry IS the speed force. 👆

You are welcome, that knowledge I'll share it with you for free 🙂

Owen wasn't even trying to win, he wanted to lose, he wanted to be punish and that's panel.

Owen powers only worked in local area, like master said his powers weren't even global, dark regin MM was mid trans at best not even close to his passive normal levels which are far above sky fathers and elder gods and that's some serious raw power between those two teers. Evil MM is by far the most powerful for he doesn't give a phuck, he could've collapse the whole damn multiverse upon when fighting beyonder