Originally posted by Delta1938
What's your point? Are you trying to argue that because writers can portray it differently or not even at all, that it only counts when it's part of the story?
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
That Clark hurting, looking good against, or even beating characters who a majority regard as being infinitely more powerful than him should not be based solely on the fluctuations of his power due to his mindset.
But also on writers?
Funny thing is that Byrne rebooted Superman with that exact same purpose in mind. That is why he based his powers on psionics, that way future writers could play with Superman's power level.
Originally posted by Galan007I do not have the blinders on and it isn't just me and carver with our own dissenting opinions. Just as Pak gave us a justification as to the all out Hulk really looks like. Both instances are in the minority of the showings. The majority of the showings also show Superman can survive in space with outside assistance but certain writers feel he needs it. The outliers just as in with this stance are in the minority so believe what you will. the difference between Hulk and Superman is simple. Hulk the majority in his favor supporting dynamic power. Opinions vary on the internet and I go by the majority of the appearances not a few.
No.However, Superman's powers have always fluctuated in accordance with his mindset/needs. Rucka simply gave us a 'scientific' explanation as to WHY this happens. His powers are dynamic. You and carv can keep the blinders on if it makes you feel better, but it is the truth--truth that can be proven over decades of showings.
Comic book writers >>> quan+carv. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
No.However, Superman's powers have always fluctuated in accordance with his mindset/needs. Rucka simply gave us a 'scientific' explanation as to WHY this happens. His powers are dynamic. You and carv can keep the blinders on if it makes you feel better, but it is the truth--truth that can be proven over decades of showings.
Comic book writers >>> quan+carv. 👆
Originally posted by Rao Kal ElYep. And Jurgens, who wrote Superman for nearly 10 years straight from 89 to 99, then various minis with him, and now is on Lois and Clark, the pre-Flashpoint Superman, wrote Superman as having the same dynamic power.
But also on writers?Funny thing is that Byrne rebooted Superman with that exact same purpose in mind. That is why he based his powers on psionics, that way future writers could play with Superman's power level.
As did Loeb and Casey and Rucka, Johns, Morrison, etc. [which in turn carries us from Crisis to Flashpoint, so NOT the minority of authors/showings. The majority.
They're pretty much all in agreement, that when Superman puts his mind to something, he's the most unstoppable force in the universe.
Originally posted by Galan007And not just Superman, but it's a kryptonian trait. Even Doomsday's mental state also affects his.
Yes, his powers vary in accordance with his mental state and in-universe needs at any given time. That IS dynamic power, genius.It seems like your definition of a dynamic powerset is: "HULK", and anyone who doesn't power up the same way doesn't have dynamic power. That's just silly. srsly
It was mentioned that his power goes up with rage, and obviously later when they gave him a brain and he felt fear, he was useless.
Originally posted by SurturThe problem is, he does.. We've seen him one shot trans tiers and railroad skyfathers and flat out do things that are supposed to be impossible, even in comics, when he's set to the idea.
But anyways, even if you cast a magic "unblock every single mental block you have" spell on him he'd still be a gnat to universal cosmic beings. That sentence I just typed? Should not of been a sentence that actually needed to be typed out for people.
Originally posted by Juntai
The problem is, he does.. We've seen him one shot trans tiers and railroad skyfathers and flat out do things that are supposed to be impossible, even in comics, when he's set to the idea.
This really doesn't change the fact that he's not portrayed as consistently universal level. Especially post crisis. Pre Crisis Superman isn't even universal, and he would slap the shit out of post crisis Superman.
Originally posted by Surtur
This really doesn't change the fact that he's not portrayed as consistently universal level. Especially post crisis. Pre Crisis Superman isn't even universal, and he would slap the shit out of post crisis Superman.
👆
Seems like they are clinging to only high showings and not looking at the majority.
Originally posted by SurturThis is correct. Superman's average level is high-heraldish. However, he can(and has) dial up the notches WAY beyond that when the situation requires it.
This really doesn't change the fact that he's not portrayed as consistently universal level.
I think we can all agree with that, no?
Originally posted by SurturI don't feel he's universal, tbh. I think an argument can be made for an unamped(but unrestrained/bloodlusted) Superman to have Skyfather-level stats, based on how effortlessly he was steamrolling through Imperiex Probes(which were high trans-level themselves.) Throw in a sun-dip and he becomes seemingly unbounded for whatever reason.
It really depends on how far beyond a high herald you are saying he is. Who is the strongest he could defeat? What if an unamped, but fully bloodlusted Superman fights Thanos? I feel Thanos is just too durable.
But anyway, do I believe a bloodlusted Superman(ala OWAW) can defeat Thanos? Absolutely. You are free to disagree, but my opinion is certainly not unfounded/baseless.
Originally posted by Galan007
I don't feel he's universal, tbh. I think an argument can be made for an unamped(but unrestrained/bloodlusted) Superman to have Skyfather-level stats, based on how effortlessly he was steamrolling through Imperiex Probes(which were high trans-level themselves.) Throw in a sun-dip and he becomes seemingly unbounded for whatever reason.But anyway, do I believe a bloodlusted Superman(ala OWAW) can defeat Thanos? Absolutely. You are free to disagree, but my opinion is certainly not unfounded/baseless.
That wasn't the only time we've seen an unrestrained Superman though. You're clinging to one showing.
Originally posted by SurturHe holds back. Always. But the only catalyst to the ramps in power, is his desire/ need to be stronger. He's as powerful as the story needs.
This really doesn't change the fact that he's not portrayed as consistently universal level. Especially post crisis. Pre Crisis Superman isn't even universal, and he would slap the shit out of post crisis Superman.
To quote.. myself..
I can see the confusion you get, because he sometimes gets knocked around momentarily by a herald or trans level character. However, the characters who engage him are counting on his restraint, his fear of hurting innocents and causing egregious collateral damage and whatever plan they have concocted to allow them to gain the upper hand temporarily. Most of them have plotted long in advance of actually meeting him, because the DC heros and villains tend to know exactly the types of scenarios that will bring Superman to battle. Or they engage him entirely on their own while he's doing other things.Even some of the mightiest beings on Earth such as Black Adam [though he started the encounter not on his own volition, he continued it by choice], who as we know as of WW3, is almost unstoppable in the absence of Superman [as 52 was marketed as the year without Superman] and has the physical attributes of many gods and relies on these things also. Notice Superman rushing around saving people while simultaneously fighting him, and as Superman gets stronger and stronger as Superman finds out how much he can handle -- showing more restraint.. then Adam backs down and Superman immediately stops -- he again relied on Superman's restraint.
This is exactly the type of story that frequents Superman's encounters. I can bring up 1000 more of you want.
But when Superman is not doing this, he's been shown to walk over trans, skyfathers and abstracts and whatnot rather easily.
Something Thanos has never shown in his whole career. Those types of characters are brackets above him.
A serious Superman runs over Thanos. That's your power difference. Superman has one shot guys in the trans tier, and railroaded skyfathers. Supes' weight class is above gods, just most of his rogues gallery like Mxy, Doomsday and Darkseid and Brainiac are, but he's benevolent, and restrains his power immensely.
Luckily on the forum, Superman isn't bound to holding back. He is his own catalyst to these massive ramps in power. And under the rules where he will use what traits he has to win, he would unleash a level Thanos simply can't contend with.
And Doomsday doesn't even have to do that. He doesn't hold back in that regard.
Superman has to cut loose just to try to keep up with him.
Thanos odds against Doomsday are not good. Like zero chance good.