Originally posted by AncientPower
Except he is stated to have gotten stronger with every struggle, he is just more conservative with his powers after DE. Something completely irrelevant when it is stated Luke went all-out defensively and nothing he did proved to be of any use. He got stomped. Kun in his prime is more powerful than he is as a spirit, that is made abundantly clear.
While tapping into the nexus of Yavin 4, Kyp's energies, etc. But nice job omitting that 👆
Originally posted by carthage
Kyp's energies
You mean the energy Durron considered feeble compared to Kun's
“Exar Kun, help me,” Kyp said, closing his eyes.He reached out with his mind, following the paths of the Force that led to every object in the universe, drawing power from the cosmic focal point of the Massassi temple. He searched, sending his thoughts like a probe deep into the storm systems of the gas giant. Behind him, Kyp felt the black-ice power of Exar Kun arise, tapping into him and reinforcing his abilities. His own feeble exploratory touch suddenly plunged forward like a blaster bolt.
Jedi Academy Trilogy: Dark Apprentice
Or the energy that wasn't sufficient enough to regain his flesh and blood body and use powers he had access to when living?
Exar Kun himself possessed a great many other dark powers that he was unable to harness without the energy he needed to fuel his disembodied will. Some of these powers he was able to channel through Kyp, Gantoris, and Streen to achieve his ends.Jedi Academy Sourcebook
For a time, he is able to subside by feeding on their residual energy, but soon he will need worshippers if he is to grow more active. With a nucleus of followers to provide him energy-providing anger and fear, Kun will have enough power to escape his exile and take on human form.Jedi Academy Sourcebook
A few scant years later, Kun is brought sharply awake by the arrival of not one or two, but a dozen humans blazing with the power he needed to live again.Jedi Academy Sourcebook
Are you actually suggesting Kyp Durron provided majority of the power behind the conflict there?
Hell, why bother mentioning the nexus when its pretty clear from implicit information that Kun's weaker in this form with the nexus than he would have been alive given he can't use some of his powers?
I mean, I know you have a boner for Nexuses and shit, but its pretty easy to pivot around performances like Bastila's on the Star Forge as both Sith Apprentice and Redeemed Jedi to determine they're negligible in the grand scheme of things for anyone of significant enough power in the first place :hmm
Or Thon's more infamously on Ambria for a fun laugh :maybe
Nah
Seriously though
When can I start tacking on a high numeric multiplier to Thon on neutral ground for the virtue of matching the most powerful Dark Side nexus in the galaxy known to the Jedi at the time of the Freedon Nadd Uprising while extremely hindered?
Thon's just a ****ing beast like that and all~
Incidentally, Thon's also much weaker than Kun :hmm
Exar's feats off of Yavin are ****ing laughably bad, On Yavin he could disintegrate Massassi/blow gaping holes in Temple walls and then on Onderon all he did was blast Aleema back, he got put on his ass by Odan Urr who doesn't even register to Luke in feats. and not even his Force stun failed to work on Ulic, Vodo, or the Jedi present. Vader, Dooku, and Malgus have better unamped force feats than that
You mean the energy Durron considered feeble compared to Kun's
While Kyp was on a heavy darkside world that enables force users to atomize beings, move Star destroyers out of Solar systems, and create Planetary illusions that trick Vong ships. Totes legit comparison 👆
Originally posted by carthage
Exar's feats off of Yavin are ****ing laughably bad
So are Yamcha's in Dragon Ball
His best feats are dying
He's as powerful as Saiyan Saga Goku at his height
The wonders of powerscaling~
On Yavin he could disintegrate Massassi/blow gaping holes in Temple walls and then on Onderon all he did was blast Aleema back,
Its kind of awe inspiring how you use a good feat for Keto's durability to downplay Kun's power :hmm
Amazingly, interpretation works both ways buddy
he got put on his ass by Odan Urr who doesn't even register to Luken strength
Why the **** do you guys use rag dolling as a legit indicator of power anyway?
So many variables, so much room to **** up, and you all choose something as unreliable as assuming their Force Defenses are always on and cranked to the max~
and not even his Force stun failed to work on Ulic, Vodo, or the Jedi present.
His power cast over wide net of people was spread too thinly to incapacitate ****ers of reasonable power?
Who'd of guessed~
Holy shit that's Luke tier power right there
Its a thing of beauty that you manage to say so much yet do so little with your words
Address my actual question
Why are you assuming Durron's providing most of the power of the pair?
While Kyp was on a heavy darkside world that enables force users to atomize beings,
Yes
I'm so impressed by gigajoules for breaking molecular bonds of a total human sized mass~
move Star destroyers out of Solar systems
Given FTL KE is impossible to quantify, I suppose I can just reference their peak reactor output
Something like 7 * 10^24 watts per ship? 16 of them right?
Amazingly, more or less comparable to razing a planet or matching a solar flare like the nexus on Ambria was formed from~
and create Planetary illusions that trick Vong ships. Totes legit comparison 👆
So, you avoid my actual questions on Nexuses
Care to try again with your next response? :hmm
I'm all for taking potshots at substance-less crap, but could you make it somewhat worth my while?
Originally posted by carthage
Exar's feats off of Yavin are ****ing laughably bad, On Yavin he could disintegrate Massassi/blow gaping holes in Temple walls and then on Onderon all he did was blast Aleema back, he got put on his ass by Odan Urr who doesn't even register to Luke in feats. and not even his Force stun failed to work on Ulic, Vodo, or the Jedi present. Vader, Dooku, and Malgus have better unamped force feats than that.While Kyp was on a heavy darkside world that enables force users to atomize beings, move Star destroyers out of Solar systems, and create Planetary illusions that trick Vong ships. Totes legit comparison 👆
Laughable lowballing is laughable.
Exar Kun freezing 10,000s-100,000s of people whilst shitting on Vodo who could WoL (with Nomi for aid) Ulic Qel-Droma, a guy who is easily Maul tier in the Force, is a feat far beyond Dooku.
He also casually barriered starfighter attacks. And before his prime as a Sith shrugged off Odan-Urr's attempt to sever him from the Force on a light side nexus. Odan-Urr is the greatest sever force practitioner in the mythos fyi.
Exar Kun's spirit being a nexus of Dark Side energy and being stated to have hugely contributed to Yavin's dark energies in SWTOR makes that pretty irrelevant. He is even stated to draw on the temples to merely keep his will together, it provides no real power for him.
Simply put Kyp draws off of a focal point in the temple he's on and is still feeble in comparison to Kun. Pretty impressive admittance given this is the same Kyp that believes himself stronger than Luke is. What is very telling is that Luke believes Kyp would become another Vader if he turned to the Dark Side.
Kun is at his weakest in the end of the JA trilogy. His sole source of energy Kyp is at the ends of the galaxy actively fighting Kun's influence. The energy he drained from Gantoris was all used up attacking Luke. Streen had stopped Kun's control over him altogether.
Despite that he's choking out Dorsk 81, Kam Solusar, Streen, Brakiss, Cilghal, Tionne, Jacen & Jaina amped by a meld that made them all stronger. These are the same students that Luke states have near mastery over all the techniques he could teach and knights them all as the Order's new generation of champions.
Kun has plenty of very impressive feats in all of his appearances, hell in SWTOR his talisman is so powerful that when SoR Nox tries to use it, she gets mindf*cked by it and blasted a good thirty feet through the air.
Suddenly the Rodian slave's claim that the earth shook with Exar Kun's power isn't so farfetched.
Wouldn't put stock in the Rodian's words barring arguing the Rodian was implying Kun used that to intimidate it as a bartering tactic tbh
I don't doubt he has that kind of power, given shaking the ground hardly takes that much energy depending on the magnitude and range, but using the word of the Rodian to confirm he did it without some kind of extra argument accompanying it isn't a good idea
Especially with a non Force sensitive
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Wouldn't put stock in the Rodian's words barring arguing the Rodian was implying Kun used that to intimidate it as a bartering tactic tbhI don't doubt he has that kind of power, given shaking the ground hardly takes that much energy depending on the magnitude and range, but using the word of the Rodian to confirm he did it without some kind of extra argument accompanying it isn't a good idea
Especially with a non Force sensitive
He was a slave on Yavin IV during the Kun war, he states that when Kun walked near him the ground was shaking with power. I.E he wasn't doing anything but walking, his presence caused the localised quake. I agree he is hardly an irrefutable source of info but then I wasn't saying it was a canon feat in the first place.
Originally posted by AncientPower
I agree he is hardly an irrefutable source of info but then I wasn't saying it was a canon feat in the first place.
Fair enough
Also
Still want an answer to this ****ers :hmm
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
NahSeriously though
When can I start tacking on a high numeric multiplier to Thon on neutral ground for the virtue of matching the most powerful Dark Side nexus in the galaxy known to the Jedi at the time of the Freedon Nadd Uprising while extremely hindered?
Thon's just a ****ing beast like that and all~
Incidentally, Thon's also much weaker than Kun :hmm
Thon demands justice for having his awesome powers be ignored so long :hmm
I mean, a nexus this powerful, and seeing as nexus are either high multiplicative boosts (double digits or higher clearly from previous discussions here on feats that aren't able to be replicated off Nexus) to exponential (seems to be how it reads at times, but that just might be communal ignorance to orders of magnitude~) for dark siders? Thon is clearly a nigh untold beast in the Force off a nexus as potent as Ambria's was.
I'm bored and putting off important shit, why do you ask?
Yeh, Thon's a monster in the Force. Ambria is stated to be the strongest nexus the Jedi Order had ever found by that time and despite Thon being exhausted, the guy (presumably) single-handedly performs a planet-wide wall of light that traps all of the Dark Side energy into Lake Nath.
Exar Kun is stated to be 'far more powerful than any other Jedi of his day'.
He's clearly even more of a monster than typically given credit for though with how powerful Carthage's nexuses appear to be :hmm
After all, if they serve to be great multipliers or exponential boosts, clearly they're great divisors to square root nerfs for light siders
And Ambria's nexus was formed from a planet being razed and compared to Naga Sadow's solar flares on the Corsair implicitly~
Laughable lowballing is laughable.
Exar Kun freezing 10,000s-100,000s of people whilst shitting on Vodo who could WoL (with Nomi for aid) Ulic Qel-Droma, a guy who is easily Maul tier in the Force, is a feat far beyond Dooku.
So no reason why he utterly fails to kill Aleema, and can't even stun weaker force users than he is when according to you he is more powerful than any Jedi of his era (including Ulic?). Nice consistency there in your statements
He also casually barriered starfighter attacks. And before his prime as a Sith shrugged off Odan-Urr's attempt to sever him from the Force on a light side nexus. Odan-Urr is the greatest sever force practitioner in the mythos fyi.
Its only implied but not shown, the bombings aren't even going off in his immediate vicinity in the scan. As far as I'm aware Ossus is force neutral, and was only powerful in the force due to the high concentration of Jedi and even a darksider like Sedriss was able to tap into it. Its hardly a "lightside nexus", so if Odan can put Exar on his ass when Exar can't even kill someone he's supposedly "more canonically" powerful than- burden of proof falls on you to show how he's more powerful than Peak Luke.
Exar Kun's spirit being a nexus of Dark Side energy and being stated to have hugely contributed to Yavin's dark energies in SWTOR makes that pretty irrelevant. He is even stated to draw on the temples to merely keep his will together, it provides no real power for him.Simply put Kyp draws off of a focal point in the temple he's on and is still feeble in comparison to Kun. Pretty impressive admittance given this is the same Kyp that believes himself stronger than Luke is. What is very telling is that Luke believes Kyp would become another Vader if he turned to the Dark Side
What are you talking about Yavin was already corrupted far more immensely even before Exar arrived there. So his spirit contributed nothing if anything at all, and he needed to be aided by other force users on top of drawing on the temple. That's all besides the point of Exar's force feats being demonstrably inferior to Luke at his peak or even as of Dark Empire
Kun is at his weakest in the end of the JA trilogy. His sole source of energy Kyp is at the ends of the galaxy actively fighting Kun's influence. The energy he drained from Gantoris was all used up attacking Luke. Streen had stopped Kun's control over him altogether.
None of these excuses prove that Exar is near and or even close to Luke in power.
Despite that he's choking out Dorsk 81, Kam Solusar, Streen, Brakiss, Cilghal, Tionne, Jacen & Jaina amped by a meld that made them all stronger. These are the same students that Luke states have near mastery over all the techniques he could teach and knights them all as the Order's new generation of champions
Which was further exacerbated by being on Yavin, which also makes Exar look far more impressive than he is. Its hardly a coincidence, lol
Kun has plenty of very impressive feats in all of his appearances, hell in SWTOR his talisman is so powerful that when SoR Nox tries to use it, she gets mindf*cked by it and blasted a good thirty feet through the air.
His amulet while amplified by Yavin isn't really his own power, so its completely beside the point to any discussion in comparison to him and Luke. And it only accomplished that due to sitting on Yavin.
Empressdmb]well you guys just raped Carthage using his own nexus wankCongratulations. I approve.
Coming from your dumbass lol
So are Yamcha's in Dragon BallHis best feats are dying
He's as powerful as Saiyan Saga Goku at his height
The wonders of powerscaling~
None of which calls into question the fact Exar's best showings are when he's on Yavin, if you want to delude yourself into thinking he's capable of similar feats on neutral ground by using units of measurement applicable to real life, completely subjective powerscaling assessments, and ignoring feats than have at it.
Its kind of awe inspiring how you use a good feat for Keto's durability to downplay Kun's power :hmmAmazingly, interpretation works both ways buddy
Its awe inspiring that on Yavin he can utterly blow apart Massassi, but fail to do the same on someone he's supposedly more powerful than. I'm not seeing how her durability factors into it, the blasts clearly aren't of the same potency for the aforementioned reason of Exar being on a nexus.
Why the **** do you guys use rag dolling as a legit indicator of power anyway?
Because its the general assumption that a powerful force user can dominate a lesser powerful force user? But that's beside the point seeing as Odan Urr didn't "Ragdoll" him, all he did was blast him back. Not that it would be any more reliable than any of your usual metrics of "kilojoules", powerscaling, or any of the other tools you regularly employ on your discussions on this forum
So many variables, so much room to **** up, and you all choose something as unreliable as assuming their Force Defenses are always on and cranked to the max~
In a discussion where AP implies Exar is next to Luke, I'd say it warrants a discussion, lol
So, you avoid my actual questions on NexusesCare to try again with your next response? :hmm
I'm all for taking potshots at substance-less crap, but could you make it somewhat worth my while?
I don't know where to begin seeing as I don't value powerscaling as an argument, unless the users being compared have showings to base a comparison on i,e Exar being more powerful than Nadd, Sadow, Muur- so it would be difficult to entertain any discussion on those merits. The examples I listed all take place on the same planet Exar was on, and are all evidence of the powerful force presence there along with all sorts of quotes from different eras that have been posted Ad nauseam on this forum regarding how powerful Yavin is in relation to the feats of force users. A few inconsistent examples like your Bastila example, really don't detract from the main point that Exar Kun offworld really has nothing to put him on Luke's tier or even Vader's for that matter so I see it as moot.
That's better buddy :maybe
Originally posted by carthage
None of which calls into question the fact Exar's best showings are when he's on Yavin, if you want to delude yourself into thinking he's capable of similar feats on neutral ground by using units of measurement applicable to real life than have at it.
In summation
You want to keep randomly assuming shit about given feats as opposed to actually using a legit measurable metric to establish comparisons?
Who exactly is the deluded one buddy? :hmm
This hobby fails on many levels, but I can at least be assured I'm at least trying to use some objective metric to gauge feats here.
Its awe inspiring that on Yavin he can utterly blow apart Massassi, but fail to do the same on someone he's supposedly more powerful than.
Are you that simple minded to assume just because he's superior she can't hold some fraction of his power?
And why do you selectively use conservation of energy when convenient?
Either go full tilt with it or say **** it
Anything in between is wishy washy garbage *shrugs*
I'm not seeing how her durability factors into it, the blasts clearly aren't of the same potency for the aforementioned reason of Exar being on a nexus.
So
We're going the "Thon is a ****ing monster" route :hmm
Because its the general assumption that a powerful force user can dominate a lesser powerful force user?
Why?
They're human sized masses and the energies needed to move them are pithy
Its even worse when you toss non force sensitives into the mix who should be ****ing powder under the logic you guys work with
Its better to use beam o war shit, because you can at least be sure they're putting their all into the attack in bloodlust sans different context
But that's beside the point seeing as Odan Urr didn't "Ragdoll" him, all he did was blast him back.
Semantics are just boring
Not that it would be any more reliable than any of your usual metrics of "kilojoules", powerscaling, or any of the other tools you regularly employ on your discussions on this forum
So me comparing shit to real world values isn't legit where as your eyeballing biased assumptions that subconsciously draw on the same shit anyway are?
That's cute~
No, go ahead
Explain why a given feat is impressive without referencing some form of physics
In a discussion where AP implies Exar is next to Luke, I'd say it warrants a discussion, lol
Don't see the gap being much more than maybe 2 times weaker than that given incarnation of Luke being generous with how much power Durron contributed myself
So, instead of ignoring the question
Discuss
Don't run away
At least not until I grow bored of playing devils advocate with you~
I don't know where to begin seeing as I don't value powerscaling as an argument, unless the users being compared have showings to base a comparison on i,e Exar being more powerful than Nadd, Sadow, Muur- so it would be difficult to entertain any discussion on those merits.
This is traditionally called "moving the goal posts"
So, other than opinion based shit, anything else?
The examples I listed all take place on the same planet Exar was on, and are all evidence of the powerful force presence there along with all sorts of quotes from different eras that have been posted Ad nauseam on this forum regarding how powerful Yavin is in relation to the feats of force users.
You're doing that "saying nothing with too much" thing again
Yes, nexus are powerful, but why are you assuming they're some kind of massive amp where performances by light siders on powerful Nexus shit on that interpretation hard? :hmm
A few inconsistent examples like your Bastila example, really don't detract from the main point that Exar Kun offworld really has nothing to put him on Luke's tier or even Vader's for that matter so I see it as moot.
"I don't like it, it didn't happen"
Really?