Exar Kun , Vodo, Ulic Qel Droma run a gauntlet

Originally posted by carthage
So no reason why he utterly fails to kill Aleema, and can't even stun weaker force users than he is when according to you he is more powerful than any Jedi of his era (including Ulic?). Nice consistency there in your statements

Its only implied but not shown, the bombings aren't even going off in his immediate vicinity in the scan. As far as I'm aware Ossus is force neutral, and was only powerful in the force due to the high concentration of Jedi and even a darksider like Sedriss was able to tap into it. Its hardly a "lightside nexus", so if Odan can put Exar on his ass when Exar can't even kill someone he's supposedly "more canonically" powerful than- burden of proof falls on you to show how he's more powerful than Peak Luke.

What are you talking about Yavin was already corrupted far more immensely even before Exar arrived there. So his spirit contributed nothing if anything at all, and he needed to be aided by other force users on top of drawing on the temple. That's all besides the point of Exar's force feats being demonstrably inferior to Luke at his peak or even as of Dark Empire

None of these excuses prove that Exar is near and or even close to Luke in power.

Which was further exacerbated by being on Yavin, which also makes Exar look far more impressive than he is. Its hardly a coincidence, lol.

His amulet while amplified by Yavin isn't really his own power, so its completely beside the point to any discussion in comparison to him and Luke. And it only accomplished that due to sitting on Yavin.

You mean when she attacked him with sorcery that casually chars people to skeletons, he blocks it and knocks her into next week before dueling Ulic to a standstill that could have gone on for hours? I'm sorry I just applied context to a feat instead of blatantly lowballing it like you did.

Oh and he applied it specifically to the entire senate and stomped Vodo whilst maintaining it. Care to list a feat from Dooku, Malgus or even Vader that compares to freezing potentially tens of thousands of people casually whilst stomping a powerful Jedi Master that can temporarily strip Ulic of his powers.

It's stated he strides across the floor untouched by fire and shrapnel, sorry it's not plain enough for you. Want the author to hold your hand on the way to walmart too or are you purposefully being dense?

Ossus was a Jedi Woodstock at that point in time, Odan-Urr fails to cut a pre-prime Kun off from the Force, only capable of knocking him back. But hey with your logic we can confirm Grand Inquisitor > Kanan & Ezra > Vader. Lets get back to making some f*cking sense shall we? Odan-Urr fails to cut off Kun from the Force, knocks Kun back, Kun then one-shots him proving he is indeed far more powerful than any Jedi of his day. As stated in sourcebooks.

You mean besides him stomping Luke despite having nowhere near his full power?

Kun is felt as a powerful presence as well as Valkorion and Revan.

We already know all the temple could do was provide Kun the ability to maintain his will.

For Kun to resurrect himself, he needs to drain all of Luke's students. We also know that Kun could only use some of his powers despite having Kyp, Streen and Gantoris as sources of energy.

Not once is JA Kun as powerful as he was in his living prime, the author already confirmed he was more poserful in Tales of the Jedi.

Stop lowballing and provide a solid argument or I'll assume you've conceded and can only lowball from this point on.

FYI

In regards to explaining feats as impressive without physics?

Take "atomization" out of your vocabulary for the post

You just used a physics concept to tell me why something is so powerful

Hell, just referencing the mass or size of an object?\

Say an ISD?

Physics and math~

You use your lack of precision and ignorance as a crutch

Sure, I can barely say I'm competent with the basics, but that understanding alone at least lets me dance circles around you *shrugs*

In summation

You want to keep randomly assuming shit about given feats as opposed to actually using a legit measurable metric to establish comparisons?

Who exactly is the deluded one buddy? :hmm

I'm not assuming anything, broski. I can post the scans where his blast just hurls Aleema, and then post the Yavin scans where he's destroying Sith wyrms, blowing holes in the temple, and atomizing Massassi. Here's a hint one of these things isn't like the other, and your burden of proof is to show he can reproduce those showings when he clearly failed in the depiction off of Yavin. Its not an assumption its a fact, lmao or else Aleema would be all but disintegrated by Exar's blast

This hobby fails on many levels, but I can at least be assured I'm at least trying to use some objective metric to gauge feats here.

Yeah using units like Kilojoules to measure the ethereal substance of the Force, must truly be an undertaking worth doing. Have at it all you like

Are you that simple minded to assume just because he's superior she can't hold some fraction of his power?[/quote[

No I'm stating that based on scans of him being unable to blow her up like he did on Yavin that he's incapable of doing it unless he has an energy source i,e a nexus to allow him to do so.

[quote]And why do you selectively use conservation of energy when convenient?

Either go full tilt with it or say **** it

Its not really my fault that the writers show Aleema charring non force sensitives with a blast, and then Exar when he's supposedly "Vastly" more powerful is only capable of blasting her back. Sorry but when the showings don't match I call bullshit.

Semantics are just boring

Not really when you're the one that can't seem to see the difference between all out dominating a force user with TK, and simply putting them back a few feet.

So me comparing shit to real world values isn't legit where as your eyeballing biased assumptions that subconsciously draw on the same shit anyway are?

That's cute~

No, go ahead

Explain why a given feat is impressive without referencing some form of physics

See the above mentioned post where I say using metrics to measure force energy i,e a non tangible substance is a fools errand, again if you want to do so have at it but it really doesn't begin to address the discrepancy in feats it just makes responding to your posts a ****ing nightmare.

Don't see the gap being much more than maybe 2 times weaker than that given incarnation of Luke being generous with how much power Durron contributed myself

Exar can barely knock back Aleema with his force blast, Luke can tank turbolasers with barrier and deflect TK attacks from Vader/lightning from Palpatine. Even decades before FOTJ, he has better unamped feats than Exar whose best telekinetic showing is killing powerless Odan Urr. If there isn't a gap than show me with actual showings that don't take place on Yavin or a darkside world

Discuss

Don't run away

At least not until I grow bored of playing devils advocate with you~

Exar being incapable of doing anything on par with what Luke can do, and having been taken down by less powerful force users/failed to replicate his darkside world showings seems like a good starting point, then. 🙂

This is traditionally called "moving the goal posts"

So, other than opinion based shit, anything else?

How is actually bringing up the discrepancies of Exar's showings off of Yavin "opinion based shit"? You and AP are the ones who haven't shown parity to Luke's feats, not the other way around

You're doing that "saying nothing with too much" thing again

Yes, nexus are powerful, but why are you assuming they're some kind of massive amp where performances by light siders on powerful Nexus shit on that interpretation hard? :hmm

Because force users can still utilize the force on nexuses and still hold their own? But that's really immaterial to the point Exar can't replicate his showings off world. Again how does a lightsider being capable of utilizing the force on any darkside world, have any relation to the point that Exar can replicate his feats off world? Its kind of irrelevant.

He has replicated his feats off-world, your entire argument is based on shitty logic. Him stunning the entire senate was a top-tier feat easily, casually stomping Odan-Urr and Vodo were too.

You have no argument, it's all your own subjective shit and nobody is buying it.

Originally posted by carthage
I'm not assuming anything, broski.

Of course not`

I can post the scans where his blast just hurls Aleema, and then post the Yavin scans where he's destroying Sith wyrms, blowing holes in the temple, and atomizing Massassi.

So, just to be clear, why is atomizing Massassi impressive now that you're telling me "**** physics" when I explain why what you mention is pithy?

You know, ignoring the fact nothing in the scan points towards the complete destruction of all molecular bonds of human sized masses in the first place

And you're making the assumption Keto can't be more/comparably durable than the Sith Wyrm because... unstated reasons why Nexuses are high end multipliers or expontential boosts

Here's a hint one of these things isn't like the other, and your burden of proof is to show he can reproduce those showings when he clearly failed in the depiction off of Yavin.

You're asking me to prove a negative

Its not an assumption its a fact, lmao or else Aleema would be all but disintegrated by Exar's blast

And she can't be this durable because?

Its a feat for Keto, why are you pretending it isn't?

Yeah using units like Kilojoules to measure the ethereal substance of the Force, must truly be an undertaking worth doing. Have at it all you like

Ah

So if you're saying its magic

Why are any of the feats here impressive?

Why is supposedly "atomizing" massassi an impressive feat compared to just throwing Aleema Keto backwards?

What do you have to compare feats with that tells me one is more impressive than the other?

I'm waiting

Its not really my fault that the writers show Aleema charring non force sensitives with a blast, and then Exar when he's supposedly "Vastly" more powerful is only capable of blasting her back. Sorry but when the showings don't match I call bullshit.

So you freely admit you're a hypocrite :hmm

You selectively call bullshit despite ignoring conservation of energy when convenient

This hobby is a farce to begin with, why make it even more subjective?

[/b]Not really when you're the one that can't seem to see the difference between all out dominating a force user with TK, and simply putting them back a few feet.[/B]

There's negligible difference

Both are pithy in terms of power

A human sized mass isn't hard to move

So what if Urr throws him back at a single digit meter per second speed as opposed to some dozens instead?

The end result isn't impressive either way

Assuming a full force Defense is up and running all the time leads to a bunch of circular logic... especially where ****ers like Ezra/Kanan/Zayne Carrick are concerned

See the above mentioned post where I say using metrics to measure force energy i,e a non tangible substance is a fools errand, again if you want to do so have at it but it really doesn't begin to address the discrepancy in feats it just makes responding to your posts a ****ing nightmare.

I see you say nothing of substance

Tell me why these feats are impressive without alluding to any physics and I'll concede it can be done for this hobby

I love making my posts a nightmare however

Getting you clowns to think is half the fun~

Exar can barely knock back Aleema with his force blast, Luke can tank turbolasers with barrier and deflect TK attacks from Vader/lightning from Palpatine.

You're functioning off the assumption that "Aleema Keto can't be this powerful"

So, can we chuck the argument for belief?

Because this is just wasting my already consciously wasted time

Even decades before FOTJ, he has better unamped feats than Exar whose best telekinetic showing is killing powerless Odan Urr. If there isn't a gap than show me with actual showings that don't take place on Yavin or a darkside world

Prove that nexus are some massively boost

I already had my laugh at your expense over how easy it is to prove they're not significant

Try actually addressing that already

Exar being incapable of doing anything on par with what Luke can do, and having been taken down by less powerful force users/failed to replicate his darkside world showings seems like a good starting point, then. 🙂

The stone wall tactic is cute, but all you're doing is avoiding the actual argument

How is actually bringing up the discrepancies of Exar's showings off of Yavin "opinion based shit"? You and AP are the ones who haven't shown parity to Luke's feats, not the other way around

Because you ignore the fact Kun and Durron combined took Luke down?

That Durron's power wasn't majority in their relationship?

That nexus aren't some massive multiplier despite the fact it makes Thon ****ing easy to wank?

[/b]Because force users can still utilize the force on nexuses and still hold their own? But that's really immaterial to the point Exar can't replicate his showings off world.[/b]

So

What about anything in your post says nexus are more than a negligible bump to anyone worth shit?

Again how does a lightsider being capable of utilizing the force on any darkside world, have any relation to the point that Exar can replicate his feats off world? Its kind of irrelevant.

A light sider matched the power of a world that had a nexus form from energy comparable to world razing and a solar flare

Seeing as both light and dark sides of the Force hold a rough balance?

What helps the dark side equally hinders the light

Ergo Thon is a ****ing beast

So

Quit avoiding the question, why should I assume nexuses are some end all be all power up when the powerful ones only serve to wank an already powerful light sider with your current interpretation of nexuses?

Originally posted by AncientPower
He has replicated his feats off-world, your entire argument is based on shitty logic. Him stunning the entire senate was a top-tier feat easily, casually stomping Odan-Urr and Vodo were too.

You have no argument, it's all your own subjective shit and nobody is buying it.

Again show me when Exar has reduced people to ash, annihilated massive beasts, and blown holes through stone. Lmfao @ subjective shit here are the scans retard:

Zero damage

compared to:

None of that is subjective, and Exar clearly and utterly failed to do the same to Aleema on Onderon. Now the burden is on you to prove he can or at least assume some degree of responsibility for your ****tarded claim he's on par with Luke

You mean when she attacked him with sorcery that casually chars people to skeletons, he blocks it and knocks her into next week before dueling Ulic to a standstill that could have gone on for hours? I'm sorry I just applied context to a feat instead of blatantly lowballing it like you did.

Vader deflecting urbolasers that disintegrate Imperial guards is vastly better:

The freighters opened fire, writing thick lines of plasma onto the air. The shots churned the ground, destroyed trees, heated the air of the clearing; one slammed into the chest of a Royal Guard and vaporized all of him save for his helmet.

Lost in the Force, Vader anticipated the shots that would have hit him, saw the appropriate angles of impact and deflection, and used the rapid spinning of his lightsaber to turn first one, then a second, and then a third shot not into the tree line but back at the ships, the heat and energy of the blaster shots driving him backward, warming the hilt of his weapon, a heat he could feel even through his glove.-Lords of the Sith

Vader utilizing barrier to withstand the Explosion of Cymoon 1:

Malgus utilizing barrier to deflect the fire/rubble from the Jedi temple in Deceived:

Exar's barrier showing is hardly as amazing as you're letting on

Oh and he applied it specifically to the entire senate and stomped Vodo whilst maintaining it. Care to list a feat from Dooku, Malgus or even Vader that compares to freezing potentially tens of thousands of people casually whilst stomping a powerful Jedi Master that can temporarily strip Ulic of his powers.

Vodo had the aid of other Jedi when he stripped Ulic, he can't do that on his own and his "stunning" couldn't even effect the force sensitives. How is that comparable to Luke being unmoved by a black hole in Dark Nest, manipulating Dovin basals, or any of his higher tier showings? Kun's strength feats aren't relevant to his offensive showings in the force, which is the point that seems to elude your thick skull

It's stated he strides across the floor untouched by fire and shrapnel, sorry it's not plain enough for you. Want the author to hold your hand on the way to walmart too or are you purposefully being dense?

I don't recall that scan, and I don't remember the bombing being around him. Why don't you post the scan so I can concede the point, instead of whining

Ossus was a Jedi Woodstock at that point in time, Odan-Urr fails to cut a pre-prime Kun off from the Force, only capable of knocking him back. But hey with your logic we can confirm Grand Inquisitor > Kanan & Ezra > Vader. Lets get back to making some f*cking sense shall we? Odan-Urr fails to cut off Kun from the Force, knocks Kun back, Kun then one-shots him proving he is indeed far more powerful than any Jedi of his day. As stated in sourcebooks.

He was remarks he is also old also well out of his prime in the force, and source for him being the "best user of Force sever". Kun killing an out of his prime force user really isn't out of the abilities of Luke, Vader, Malgus or any force user worth his salt

You mean besides him stomping Luke despite having nowhere near his full power?

Kun is felt as a powerful presence as well as Valkorion and Revan.

Most force spirits in nexuses do the same thing, its not really as immense as your making it out to be.

We already know all the temple could do was provide Kun the ability to maintain his will.

For Kun to resurrect himself, he needs to drain all of Luke's students. We also know that Kun could only use some of his powers despite having Kyp, Streen and Gantoris as sources of energy.

Force users are routinely weaker when they are in spirit forms, again nothing in his feats when he's alive in Tales of the Jedi reinforces the point he is on par with Luke at that time period. Him needing to drain Jedi in order to reach his full power than can't equal his amped feats off Yavin, really doesn't prove any of your points as well.

Not once is JA Kun as powerful as he was in his living prime, the author already confirmed he was more poserful in Tales of the Jedi.

Stop lowballing and provide a solid argument or I'll assume you've conceded and can only lowball from this point on.

Which is ****ing hilarious considering he can lift the Sun crusher, incinerate Gantoris, among other feats when he couldn't and failed to do so as per the scans I posted when he was alive. Again the ball is in your court to show me anything other than laughable powerscaling arguments, scans of Exar incinerating force users, dominating powerful force users like Kyp, or anything greater than Luke has done while in Tales of the Jedi.

Originally posted by carthage
Again the ball is in your court to show me anything other than laughable powerscaling arguments

Those goal posts are moving with great force I see :hmm

Be that as it may, I've had my fun

Take my resulting silence as a concession or whatever until the next time I feel like shooting the shit over this

Have applications to submit before I sleep

Originally posted by carthage
Again show me when Exar has reduced people to ash, annihilated massive beasts, and blown holes through stone. Lmfao @ subjective shit here are the scans retard:

Zero damage

compared to:

None of that is subjective, and Exar clearly and utterly failed to do the same to Aleema on Onderon. Now the burden is on you to prove he can or at least assume some degree of responsibility for your ****tarded claim he's on par with Luke

Vader deflecting urbolasers that disintegrate Imperial guards is vastly better:

Vader utilizing barrier to withstand the Explosion of Cymoon 1:

Malgus utilizing barrier to deflect the fire/rubble from the Jedi temple in Deceived:

Exar's barrier showing is hardly as amazing as you're letting on

Vodo had the aid of other Jedi when he stripped Ulic, he can't do that on his own and his "stunning" couldn't even effect the force sensitives. How is that comparable to Luke being unmoved by a black hole in Dark Nest, manipulating Dovin basals, or any of his higher tier showings? Kun's strength feats aren't relevant to his offensive showings in the force, which is the point that seems to elude your thick skull

I don't recall that scan, and I don't remember the bombing being around him. Why don't you post the scan so I can concede the point, instead of whining

He was remarks he is also old also well out of his prime in the force, and source for him being the "best user of Force sever". Kun killing an out of his prime force user really isn't out of the abilities of Luke, Vader, Malgus or any force user worth his salt

Most force spirits in nexuses do the same thing, its not really as immense as your making it out to be.

Force users are routinely weaker when they are in spirit forms, again nothing in his feats when he's alive in Tales of the Jedi reinforces the point he is on par with Luke at that time period. Him needing to drain Jedi in order to reach his full power than can't equal his amped feats off Yavin, really doesn't prove any of your points as well.

Which is ****ing hilarious considering he can lift the Sun crusher, incinerate Gantoris, among other feats when he couldn't and failed to do so as per the scans I posted [b]when he was alive. Again the ball is in your court to show me anything other than laughable powerscaling arguments, scans of Exar incinerating force users, dominating powerful force users like Kyp, or anything greater than Luke has done while in Tales of the Jedi. [/B]

Please tell me where you got the mind-numbingly stupid idea that a powerful sorceress whom can protect herself with the Force is comparable to mindless beasts like Massassi and Sith Wyrms. Then get back to me with evidence that Kun was going all out at this point when his priority was Ulic, if he goes doomray on Keto, then he's leaving Ulic the advantage in Force reserves.

How is it an opinion that Kun is > JA Luke when that's precisely what was proven in the book, you imbecile.

Exar Kun's Force defense has shrugged off a sever Force attack from a powerful Jedi master whom had the telepathic prowess to maintain a conversation with thousands of Jedi simultaneously. His Force defenses protected him from Starfighter grade explosives without him gesturing. His Force defenses also protected him from Aleema Keto's full strength sorcery attacks.

He is hardly lacking in the Force defense category, so why dont you actually prove something.

I never once said he's more powerful than Peak Luke you blind fool.

Force augmentation directly correlates with one's power and Force reserves. So him producing lightsaber clashes that could be heard from kilometers away, breaking through a multi-feet thick wall of beskar with a saber and repeatedly brealing the Force imbued-staff of Vodo are all absolutely relevant showings of power.

ROFL at your pathetic deluded attempts to belittle his senate-wide stunning feat, did it surpass your hilarious logic that either:

1.He was exclusively freezing the senate.
2.His power was a blanket attack spread over thousands of people, him not effecting Vodo, Nomi and the like with it is hardly surprising when they have that thing called mental defense.

That didn't stop Odan-Urr from having a telepathic conversation with thousands of people at once, the old = weak logic is dumped on when we have many elderly Jedi and Sith making up for their age with the Force. Obviously Odan-Urr was not in his prime here but he has a thousand years of anti-Sith prep to counter that. Kun still stomped his shit in and got even stronger after it.

So you're just going to dodge the point that a weaker Kun in spirit form can stomp Luke's shit in. Logically he'd do the same in his far stronger living prime.

He roflstomped two Jedi Masters.
Froze thousands of people with no effort.
One-shotted Aleema Keto.
One-shotted Nadd's spirit.
One-shotted Sylvar.
Casually blocked bombs, sorcery and sever Force.

So if Spirit Kun>JA Luke who is above his DE self or at least on-par with it who pretty much beat Palpatine on neutral ground barring his wormholes, wouldn't that mean Kun>Palpatine.

Originally posted by The Merchant
So if Spirit Kun>JA Luke

Wait

Who said that? :geg

Luke rebuked a weakened Kun, and a combined effort between Durron and Kun tossed Luke's soul from his body

Nothing about that suggests anything more than Kun possessing some decent fraction of DE Luke's power though

DE Luke isn't quite Sidious' level IIRC

Took something like himself, Leia, and her unborn child to sever his connection to the Force briefly. Obviously Luke contributed the most power, but it lends to suggest Luke's still somewhat weaker than Sidious despite being a peer as a duelist

Unless Dark Empire II or Empire's End has a fight I'm not privy too?

At any rate

Night clowns, you've been a fun crowd for today~

Kun and Durron owned Luke though? And Luke couldn't do a thing about it.

Luke owned Palpatine in a duel, chopped off his hand. Palpatine then used his Force storm ability, which Luke needed Leia and Anakin to sever Palpatines force connection from that.

Originally posted by The Merchant
So if Spirit Kun>JA Luke who is above his DE self or at least on-par with it who pretty much beat Palpatine on neutral ground barring his wormholes, wouldn't that mean Kun>Palpatine.

No, because Sids didn't go all out and Luke had an amp from Leia and unborn Anakin.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Wait

Who said that? :geg

Luke rebuked a weakened Kun, and a combined effort between Durron and Kun tossed Luke's soul from his body.

Kun is much more powerful alive though, Kyp really isn't making up for that when he's feeble compared to spirit Kun in the first place.

The only thing Palpatine didn't do in that duel was force storms tho, and he unleashed it on the Pinnacle Moon base. If he was so powerful he could have just disarmed Luke. And Luke wasn't amped when he dueled Palpatine, he was amped when he was cutting off Palpatines connection to his Force storms.

Originally posted by The Merchant
The only thing Palpatine didn't do in that duel was force storms tho, and he unleashed it on the Pinnacle Moon base. If he was so powerful he could have just disarmed Luke. And Luke wasn't amped when he dueled Palpatine, he was amped when he was cutting off Palpatines connection to his Force storms.

In the absence of Leia's assistance, Palpatine had been dominating Luke.

---

Now, Palpatine is tremendously powerful in his own right and Exar Kun is tremendously powerful in his own right. However, it is not necessary for Palpatine to be a master of every Dark Side ability ever conceived and raw power doesn't guarantees victory in all situations.

The beauty of Sith Sorcery is that it is a pathway to development of virtually endless techniques.

Luke wasn't lacking in strength in comparison to Kun; Luke was lacking in options to counter Kun's offensive techniques.

---

Another point is that Luke isn't necessarily suited to tackle every Force-user in history. Every character have strengths and weaknesses.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, that's not exactly true. JA Luke is honestly decidedly less impressive than he was in his darker DE days, and it was Kyp and Kun together that defeated him.

Exar Kun had advantage in the offensive spectrum; Luke Skywalker could not effectively counter all of his offensive techniques.

Yes, Kyp Durron was there but he was not at his prime and Kun was in spirit form and hindered. Moreover, another member have addressed this part earlier.

He sorta kinda is, tbh.

Originally posted by Syndicate
How did Kun defeat him?

He attacked him with a sorcery variant of Sith lightning, which apparently can't be stopped by any version of Force defense including Tutaminis.