Black Lives Matter thread

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Cops are supposed to be public servants, meaning the public has every damn right to demand better treatment. I do feel bad for honest police, which I believe are the vast majority, but the vocal minority ones who complain about emotional distress from being criticized by the news media or the internet because they threatened to shoot a reporter on TV can go cry me a river.

I would love if everyone with an attitude like this would just take a week off of work and go ride around and do a cop's job in these demilitarized zones some people call neighborhoods and then come back and give their thoughts. Do you think perhaps some would return from such an outing with a different attitude?

Of course people have the right to demand better treatment from the cops. Thing is cops are people too and everyone makes mistakes, when you deal with life or death situations your mistakes tend to carry a lot more weight. Of course I feel a cop should have the right to expect someone to f*cking comply with shit they are told within reason. Just because you aren't a public servant doesn't give you grounds to act like a f*cking savage and expect no consequences. I expect every citizen, cop or not, to not act like friggin animals.

With very few exceptions..most of the time this shit happens it is a criminal who won't comply with the cops, agreed? Agreed that normally they aren't just rolling up and firing indiscriminately? Like these gang bangers do? They cry and holler and indict all cops. But if you do the same to them and generalize they scream racism. This entire situation is dripping with hypocrisy from both sides.

Originally posted by Surtur
But when a black person calls another black person the N word it usually isn't meant as racism. Or if it is then holy shit every single black person needs to stop whining about racism because then most of them are hardcore racists. Literally every rap song is chalk full of racism. Who knew Tupac and Jay Z just plain hate blacks? Poor guy, no wonder he was so self destructive.

You are being racist by saying it's more acceptable for a black to use racial slurs against a white then it is for whites to use them against blacks. You certainly attempt to dress that up in another way, but that is what you are essentially doing.

You almost completely misunderstood me, Surtur.

You said magnitude matters with race. I said no it really doesn't, the magnitude of the act matters, race doesn't. You then said "what about blacks who call other blacks the N word" as if that is usually done with racism in mind.

Here let me put it another way so everyone understands. Let us say we have a scale of racism from 1-10, with 10 being the worst. If a racial slur is a 2 on that scale then it's a two..regardless of race. So yep, black guy calls mexican guy a dirty spic? 2. I call a black guy the N word? 2. Mexican guy calls a jew a dirty kike bastard? 2. There is no..it's a 6 if I say something to a black guy, but it's a 2 if he says something back to me.

Originally posted by The Lost
No, I denied the news media celebrating those particular individuals/groups as supposed anti-heroes. I did this because you mentioned the news media, which is specifically what I responded to. You're strawmanning.

"Drug lords" (again, it is curious that drug lords and gangsters are the forefront of your examples when mentioning black people/culture) should be disciplined. This does not mean that they have not suffered oppression or institutionalized racism simply because they've done something reprehensible.

If someone burns my hand with a lighter and I sell an eight ball to a teenager, it does not revoke the existence of a burn mark on my hand.

Yes, of course. That is definitely what I said.

Drug lords and gangsters are the forefront of my examples because I am talking about criminals. Specifically, criminals in poor neighbourhoods who are known to carry guns, create turf wars and rise up a criminal hierarchy. You also mention black culture, I have not mentioned black culture when discussing gangster culture, ghettos, drug lords etc. Need I remind you Hispanics, Asians and white people are also part of this specific culture? Ferguson being an example. Straw man, thy name is hypocrisy.

I've already raised the point that they are victims of institutional racism and reaffirm institutional racism based on their actions. I'm criticising this behaviour as a terrible solution against the police, and more importantly, black people who have to grow up in these neighbourhoods are the biggest victims. #blacklivesmatter actually equates innocent black people with black drug lords and black gangstas who are criminals and should not be seen as victims just because they're black. Thank you for repeating my argument backwards.

Are 8 balls illegal to sell to teenagers? If so, you can't use a burn mark to justify breaking the law.

Why burn mark? Why 8 ball? I'm sorry to ask, it just seemed like the weirdest analogy I have ever read on this board.

Originally posted by Surtur
I would love if everyone with an attitude like this would just take a week off of work and go ride around and do a cop's job in these demilitarized zones some people call neighborhoods and then come back and give their thoughts. Do you think perhaps some would return from such an outing with a different attitude?

Of course people have the right to demand better treatment from the cops. Thing is cops are people too and everyone makes mistakes, when you deal with life or death situations your mistakes tend to carry a lot more weight. Of course I feel a cop should have the right to expect someone to f*cking comply with shit they are told within reason. Just because you aren't a public servant doesn't give you grounds to act like a f*cking savage and expect no consequences. I expect every citizen, cop or not, to not act like friggin animals.

With very few exceptions..most of the time this shit happens it is a criminal who won't comply with the cops, agreed? Agreed that normally they aren't just rolling up and firing indiscriminately? Like these gang bangers do? They cry and holler and indict all cops. But if you do the same to them and generalize they scream racism. This entire situation is dripping with hypocrisy from both sides.

Examples: If I fall a drug test at work, I am fired. If a LEO fails a drug test, he should be fired and given jail time.

They should always be on a type of parole.

Originally posted by Peace Keeper
It's not the "mistakes" cops make, it's the general lack of consequences they face.
A cop deserves much harsher punishment for crimes or "mistakes" they make than if a regular citizen commits the same crime. Instead, they are usually given leniency.

Examples: If I fall a drug test at work, I am fired. If a LEO fails a drug test, he should be fired and given jail time.

They should always be on a type of parole.

Wait, what? Cops deserve harsher punishments for mistakes? This seems weird. You want a cop to be put in jail for failing a drug test?

Shit is this one of those things where you are being completely sarcastic, but because this is the internet and I have no way of hearing you or your tone voice I take what you say at face value? I hope it is that.

I also find drug testing at work wrong. If an employee is showing up drunk or high or whatever then fire them, but if they do their job well..then what they choose to do in their private time shouldn't concern you as long as nobody is getting harmed.

Originally posted by Surtur
Wait, what? Cops deserve harsher punishments for mistakes? This seems weird. You want a cop to be put in jail for failing a drug test?

And if a cop is caught falsifying evidence? Fired, no retirement, no severance, and barred for life from ever being able to serve in law enforcement again.

That’s because police have a very high power. They should be even more severe consequences for the abuse of that power than people working in the commercial world. I cannot arrest you and put you in jail for 3 days just because I don’t like you. But any of the cops outside of this building sure can. “Oh, you’re that guy, Surtur, that Will told me about. He said you gave him sass when he pulled you over the other night. Let’s see how much sass you give me in a jail cell.”
*Five days later*

“Yeah, Will, I wrote down on the report that ‘it looked like he was reaching for a gun in his waistband. That’s why I tackled him put him in cuffs and he resisting and screamed at me the whole time.’ He’s been in jail awaiting bail for quite a while, now. Haha, that will show him for blabbing about his rights when you pull him over, next time. Now, let’s go punch a young black man in the face after lunch.”

You know what? I had fun writing that story. It amused me. But it is very close to how some police operate.

If they got caught lying about the encounter with you, wouldn't it be nice if they could never again be allowed to be a police officer anywhere else, again?

Some cops say that their city police are 50% corrupt. Isn't that crazy? 50%...that's huge.

Okay so we went from maybe smoking a bit of weed to falsifying evidence and being a corrupt cop. I'm not sure what to say. I am not saying we shouldn't try to fight police corruption or anything like that, but I do find putting someone in jail over a failed drug test silly. As long as someone isn't doing drugs on the job I don't care.

I mean to me this is sort of like saying if a cop robs a liquor store he should get a more severe punishment then a civilian who robs a liquor store because the cop should of known better.

I think the police as enforcers should be punished severely for breaking crimes they enforce onto other citizens.

Originally posted by Surtur
Okay so we went from maybe smoking a bit of weed to falsifying evidence and being a corrupt cop. I'm not sure what to say. I am not saying we shouldn't try to fight police corruption or anything like that, but I do find putting someone in jail over a failed drug test silly. As long as someone isn't doing drugs on the job I don't care.

I mean to me this is sort of like saying if a cop robs a liquor store he should get a more severe punishment then a civilian who robs a liquor store because the cop should of known better.

So once again you have people trying to blame the cops. Three black teens steal a car, crash it into a pond in a cemetery and drown. Guess who the parents blame? No, not the teens who stole the car and had records before this, but the cops:

YouTube video

Then the sheriff or whatever is giving a press conference and says that there has been a huge increase in crime in the area and it's mostly young black teens..of course the NAACP has to comment on that and say he shouldn't of said it. The parents even think the friggin cops should of tried to jump in and risk drowning themselves in order to save their criminal teens.

I mean watch the video, the friggin lawyer compares this to the death penalty. These teens got themselves killed and she is comparing it to the death penalty. "If you steal a vehicle in the state of florida you don't get the death penalty". Has everyone gone insane? "There's a good faith basis to believe the car wasn't stolen" lady they all have prior records for stealing cars lol. I really hope the police department doesn't give these families a single penny.

Lol one of the other mothers basically says that it wasn't theft because the keys were left in the ignition and thus since the car was still running when they took it..it's not theft. You can't make this shit up.

http://qz.com/656159/the-scientific-way-to-train-white-people-to-stop-being-racist/

Interesting read. The stuff about white fragility is definitely on display at times in this forum.

No one wants to be called fragile. And if you’re white, what you feel reading the title of this article may be indicative of the term. “White fragility” refers to white people’s low emotional tolerance for discussing topics of race and racism.

The term was coined by Dr. Robin DiAngelo in a 2011 article discussing her experience with white people in anti-racism trainings. She defines it as “a state when even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves.”

We’ve taught similar anti-oppression trainings at tech companies, where we worked as in-house psychotherapists and emotional intelligence educators, and we’ve struggled with similar challenges. In our experience, when introducing the concept of race and oppression, the first defense is usually a diversion led by the students to the topic of the oppression of red-headed people, the overweight, the disabled, or their own immigrant heritages. We aim to explain to the group how although these experiences, while indeed oppressive, are not comparable to the centuries of enslavement, race-based legislation, systematic incarceration, and unequal wealth distribution that is racism in the United States. The other class favorite is the derailment to a discussion about “reverse racism,” where we often defer to comedian Aamer Rahmen’s three minute video to resolve. What begins as a workshop often ends up feeling much more like a battle. Facilitators before us have gone so far as to outline specific participation guidelines for these workshops such as ”speak from your own experience” (i.e. no playing devil’s advocate or using hypotheticals) to nip some of the other common defense mechanisms in the bud and to promote more productive conversations.

Ah yes it's that "white fragility" that is on display a lot. Okay. But then we both know lots of things are on display in this forum, don't we?

Sorry, was that my white fragility? Just help me out man, teach me the right way to be white.

lol

I just need to come to terms with this moral dilemma. Being white is way tougher then I ever would of thought. Maybe with help and guidance I can get rid of the fragility and just get some white stability back?

EDIT: Thank god! There is hope. I didn't read the entire link. Once I got to the "What can a white person do?" part it all became clear, thanks man.

Lol so Milo Yiannopoulos is giving a talk and mentions how people from black lives matter don't want to engage in civil discourse...then like 60 seconds later a black guy stands up and begins shouting and even demanding the mic. So it literally took about 60 seconds for Milo to be proven correct lol. I just love Milo, I love the whiny-ness he brings out in people, especially overly sensitive college kids. But what I love the most is when you can sit back and watch people essentially watch people crash and burn without having to really say or do anything. Why dig someones grave when they are more then willing to dig their own?

YouTube video

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol so Milo Yiannopoulos is giving a talk and mentions how people from black lives matter don't want to engage in civil discourse...then like 60 seconds later a black guy stands up and begins shouting and even demanding the mic. So it literally took about 60 seconds for Milo to be proven correct lol. I just love Milo, I love the whiny-ness he brings out in people, especially overly sensitive college kids. But what I love the most is when you can sit back and watch people essentially watch people crash and burn without having to really say or do anything. Why dig someones grave when they are more then willing to dig their own?

YouTube video

Milo is great.

TBH He and Ben Shapiro are the people I think will have a great impact on future politics of the UK and the US, respectively.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol so Milo Yiannopoulos is giving a talk and mentions how people from black lives matter don't want to engage in civil discourse...then like 60 seconds later a black guy stands up and begins shouting and even demanding the mic. So it literally took about 60 seconds for Milo to be proven correct lol. I just love Milo, I love the whiny-ness he brings out in people, especially overly sensitive college kids. But what I love the most is when you can sit back and watch people essentially watch people crash and burn without having to really say or do anything. Why dig someones grave when they are more then willing to dig their own?

YouTube video

Chicken in the gray hat needs pumped.

Here is another thing that just ticks me off, it's this mentality that because you live in the "hood" then your criminal behavior shouldn't be held against you. There is this false notion that being poor and from a bad neighborhood excuses this kind of behavior. Here we have a teen who broke into someone's house. They weren't home, but the woman who lived there had this alarm system that alerted her to the break in. She arrives home and witnesses the thief leaving her house through a window and shoots him once. The cops arrive a few minutes later, but the teen is already dead by the time they are there.

So it was more or less justified, but the family complains about the action this woman took and they essentially imply since the kid was from the ghetto that it's not his fault or whatever. One says "you gotta understand it from the point of view of someone from the hood..how he supposed to get his money for clothes to go to school?". This kind of attitude isn't rare. Whenever these criminals die due to their own poor choices it's always the fault of someone else. Some people essentially think we should just get out of the way of these criminals and let them go about their business.

YouTube video

It reminds me of the mother who was complaining that someone shot her son while he was in the process of robbing a convenience store.