Anakin vs Dooku vs HoT

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Well besides the fact that they are given the usual, "Strongest in generations" speech, Satele also called you the "greatest weapon against the Darkness" who would determine the fate of the entire Order, and blah, and blah, Knights of the Fallen Empire also calls them the "Champion of the Force," and Scourge stating them being the only one powerful enough to resist Vitiate lends me to believe the HoT is supposed to be the more powerful of the two. Lightsaber skills will only take you so far. There's also the Barsen'thor struggling with the First Son more than the HoT ever would, but that's more of an opinion than anything.

If I were to make a comparison I'd say the Hero of Tython can be likened to Jaina Solo, while the Barsen'thor is like Kyp Durron. Kyp may have more raw power and offensive Force ability, but Jaina was made the Sword of the Jedi and chosen to kill Darth Caedus, she's a superior weapon.

It doesn't really matter at this point. There's only the Outlander now, so we'll never know, as they get defaulted to being the best in their Orders.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not really. All the Force using classes in the SWTOR are around the same level in power. The Wrath is stated to have legendary skill and power, for instance. The Barsen'thor is a prodigy.

Except that Nox, besides being a powerful individual, has the power of Sith spirits which are bound to him. That display of dominance over Thanaton is enough to put him above Wrath, at least.

The Wrath would kill Thanaton just as easily, considering s/he defeats the much more powerful Baras. Nox needed augmentation to make up for his/her general lack of training as a youth, and thus knowledge of more arcane Sith practices.

When is it stated/demonstrated/proven Baras is 'much more powerful' than Thanaton?

I seriously doubt any other Council member would kill Thanaton with the relative ease Nox did it. There's a reason he was there, after all.

Thanaton has much better showings than Baras tbh, he seemed more the political type.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
When is it stated/demonstrated/proven Baras is 'much more powerful' than Thanaton?

I seriously doubt any other Council member would kill Thanaton with the relative ease Nox did it. There's a reason he was there, after all.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
When Baras is stated to be the most powerful Sith in the galaxy while Thanaton is sitting right there? Or when he bowed to him as the Voice of the Emperor, for whatever reason? One of those.

What? Baras was never stated to be the most powerful Sith in the galaxy. Not by a credible source, anyway. And since when does bowing to someone = being inferior? If they never believed he was the Voice, not one in the Council would've vowed or considered him a threat.
I need more than this. Thanaton has actual displays of power. We get none from Baras.

Nox was there because Thanaton challenged him/her to a duel where the winner took all, and Thanaton ran away. Otherwise, they would have been killed on the spot for interrupting the Dark Council. Similarly, the Wrath could only be there on the Emperor's authority. Both of which, at the time, were likely weaker than Marr going by the codex. It's not like someone had to kill Thanaton, and only Nox could do it.

I never said only Nox could kill him, I said I doubt anyone present at the killing would have defeated Thanaton with such ease. Seriously, Nox didn't even break a sweat. He owned him. And Thanaton has good displays of power.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Anakin destroys, lel.

Originally posted by Sinious
So no matter what feats HoT has, you still lowball him cause you think Revan and Vader must be on the same level? Sounds legit.

Or you wank him...

Winud has better accolades and better circumstantial feat than the HoT. So no, he is not gona get even a single round against the likes of Anakin or Dooku.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No. No it isn't. Cutting someone who's powerful isn't a Force feat. So, yeah, you kind of do have to show shit. Like how the HoT won't be blitzed as soon as he goes into sabers.

Did Vitiate want to kill him? Yes.
Did Vitiate even use anything but his force powers in a fight before? No.
Was Vitiate (with possible exhaustion and after getting cut down) still powerful enough to bring a huge part of the temple down despite being weakened? Yes.
Did we see Vitiate attacking HoT with the force in both cutscenes of the fight? Yes.

This should make it easier for you to understand the feat.

btw, please argue speedblitz so it gets entertaining.

Well besides Vitiate saying he no longer cared about it, no one, including Scourge, actually knew what the Emperor was planning. We still don't.

With evidence of Scourge said so, it's pretty air-tight, I guess.

Including himself and his children, and his entire Empire, yeah? I mean

The what? I mean Valkorion says, "I have never been your enemy." Therefore he never really tried to kill the Hero of the Tython. I mean he said it!

He was already immortal to begin with, and apparently has had Valkorion around for centuries, so that doesn't make any sense at all.

And none of that Lightning would have collapsed the Dark Temple. Esepcially when the Hero of Tython can't deal with much weaker TK.

Point to where HoT failed to deal with weaker TK so I can address it.

Or you know, we have hindsight to actually know what happened. Vitiate wasn't harmed in anyway, some of his power went to Yavin, and his mind back to Zakuul. It wasn't like he could physically feel anything.

The twist wee see with KOTFE doesn’t overwrite everything we knew about SWTOR, just so you know.

Anakin ragdolls HOT and uses his corpse to kill Dooku.

Did Vitiate want to kill him?

No. :tehee:

Quote function stopped working, but you know it's you, Sinious.

Did Vitiate want to kill him? Yes.
Did Vitiate even use anything but his force powers in a fight before? No.
Was Vitiate (with possible exhaustion and after getting cut down) still powerful enough to bring a huge part of the temple down despite being weakened? Yes.
Did we see Vitiate attacking HoT with the force in both cutscenes of the fight? Yes.

This should make it easier for you to understand the feat.

btw, please argue speedblitz so it gets entertaining.

I'm actually waiting for you to make an argument that isn't "Vitiate is amazing. And the HoT is amazing. So since they're both amazing, y'all don't understand."

Is that why Vitiate mocks HoT's shortsightedness for asking him what is the point in killing everything? Not only does he confirm that he is still going for the mega drain, but also mentions the existence of "others" and makes it clear that they will still be around after.

Yeah, that doesn't make sense, but "I have never been your enemy" overwriting the entire JK story is totally fine, right?

Whether you are arguing that Vitiate's lightning is weaker than his TK or that he didnt go all out, you have to prove it.

Point to where HoT failed to deal with weaker TK so I can address it.

Arcann
Tol Braga
Kira while ironically possesed by the Emperor
Revan
Senya

And no, none of those showings would remotely do anything to the Dark Temple.

Vitiate doesn't have to feel pain, or permanently lose power to be inconvenient by his defeat. You can't avoid the fact that HoT shit on him in his own temple and ruined his galaxy annihilation, Freshest. Also, what about the prophecy that was foreseen by Scourge 300 years before it happened? What about Vitiate saying "I see futures in you. Futures I will not allow"?

The twist of KotFE kind of does. That's how stories work. They progress, they don't stay static. Lore changes.

Huh, I guess Scourges vision does heavily indicate that the HoT is the canon Outlander.

I also get the impression that HoT is the Outlander. BioWare's promotional material depicts a Jedi Knight.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
How do you know this? I mean clearly when Vitiate wants to kill something it ends up dead. Every single time. A weakened Vitiate is killing hundreds of people at once, but he can't deal with this one Jedi Knight he's clearly more powerful than? M'kay.

Valkorion had already suffered a major setback from the disruption of his most ambitious ritualistic. In addition to this setback, another blow could be nearly fatal (and it was).

"Your striving is insignificant. Let your death be the same."

Straightforward remark.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He uses a lightsaber in this one, so point?
You keep wanking this one feat to show how amazeballs Vitiate must have been during the duel, even though nothing like that is ever presented in cutscene.

[Color]In a final apocalyptic duel,[/Color] the Knight battles the Sith Emperor for the fate of the galaxy – and changes it forever.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

Valkorion and Hero of Tython might have been damaging nearby structures with their sheer kinetic emissions and/or chugging heavy debris at each other during the virtually unknown phase of combat.

We do witness Valkorion resorting to collapsing the entire hall of the Dark Temple in a last-ditch effort to crush Hero of Tython beneath tons of rubble in the final cut-scene. But the Jedi managed to escape somehow.

"Your striving is insignificant. Let your death be the same."

It's a straightforward statement. Intentions are absolutely clear.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And he was using that bamf TK, am I right? I mean the Outlander, who is above Act III HoT can't even take casual TK on a good day, and never has for that matter getting TK'd by Braga a week tops prior, but he can withstand a Temple smashing force?

Analogy:

Palpatine knocked out Yoda with a single burst of Force Lightning during the initial phase of their confrontation. The former could take advantage of this momentary gain and kill Yoda right then and there but he wasted such a golden opportunity.

So should we assume that Yoda was no match for Palpatine because he suffered a setback during the initial phase of their confrontation?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
To name a few:

Arcann
Tol Braga
Kira while ironically possesed by the Emperor
Revan
Senya

And no, none of those showings would remotely do anything to the Dark Temple.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Given you can't actually prove a single thing Vitiate has ever wanted to do, period, I can deny plenty, actually. You also aren't showing why him having a weakened body, which is already dead, is somehow a hinderence to him, when it obviously isn't. Scourge saw the Hero of Tython strike the Emperor down and take his power which has nothing to do with the JK's story at this point, and everything to do with the Outlander now, and given that takes off a good two years or so after Chapter III, it's hardly a point in his favor as of now. Apparently those futures weren't that important since he let's him live everytime he encounters him, but hey, maybe Vitiate's just that shitty a combatant or possibly mentally retarded. That's actually much more likely.

Fact # 1: Hero of Tython is powerhouse
Fact # 2: Valkorion is not a shitty combatant

Case closed.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The twist of KotFE kind of does. That's how stories work. They progress, they don't stay static. Lore changes.

I get the impression that Valkorion is using the Outlander for personal gains. It's a brilliant tactic.

Anakin stomps here.

I was actually arguing that Vitiate never wanted to kill the HoT, but since LeGenD so kindly replied to my conversation with Sinious, I'm highly convinced he's just shit now.

Vitiate states that he "see's futures in you that I cannot allow" at the end of Act I. In Act II Scourge states that the Hero is Vitiate's "most hated enemy". During Doomsday, Vitiate flat out states that he wants to kill you.

The quest text for the mission states: "Realizing you are too powerful to be dominated by his twisted will, the Emperor has resorted to more conventional means to destroy you."

And: "The Emperor lies beaten at your feet. For all his power, he was no match for you. Now you must decide his ultimate fate."

Furthermore, at the end of Ziost he states that he's changed his mind about killing you, indicating that he was trying to do so before.

So basically, like, no. 😐