Originally posted by Sinious
He was factually powerful enough to bring down a huge portion of the dark temple, even after he was struck down, which tells us Vitiate was at least that powerful when HoT faced him. Not to mention Vitiate was indeed trying to successfully finalize that ritual, so I'm sure he everything in his arsenal to stop the guy who was there to ruin something Vitty prepped for more than a thousand years. HoT still defeated him despite Vitiate's display of raw power under even shittier circumstances right after the fight.
Yet he needed 6 more people to beat a Vader level opponent...
Originally posted by Sinious
He was factually powerful enough to bring down a huge portion of the dark temple, even after he was struck down, which tells us Vitiate was at least that powerful when HoT faced him.
Not to mention Vitiate was indeed trying to successfully finalize that ritual, so I'm sure he everything in his arsenal to stop the guy who was there to ruin something Vitty prepped for more than a thousand years.
HoT still defeated him despite Vitiate's display of raw power under even shittier circumstances right after the fight.
Being the strongest Jedi in TOR for most of the game for one, and continually getting more and more powerful. The HoT has more or less the best credentials out of all the protags, when all of the Force using ones measure up to Anakin and Dooku.
Also the Outlander gives Arcann a decent fight, despite the carbonite damage and it's not suggested that Arcann can casually TK them.
I never said he is above them. I just disagreed with people saying he is outclassed or doesn't even belong in this fight. HoT was considered the order's finest way before his prime. Now we know HoT and Wrath are both melee focused combatants where Nox and Thor are more force oriented. So despite the fact that his best insceen showings are defensive force powers, one can logically understand that HoT is more of a duelist, as supported by swtor.com and the game itself of course "combining the foresight of the Force with unrivaled reflexes and practiced physical precision, the Knight turns combat into an art form, gracefully executing acrobatic feats in tandem with elegant lightsaber tactics". Add in the fact that he also finished mastering all lightsaber forms shortly after chp. 3 finale, it shouldn't be surprising that he relies more on dueling than force powers. Yet, he is still powerful enough to not get overwhelmed by someone with superior showings of raw power to anyone in this fight. And if you want to be reminded of the people he defeated throughout the game, you can check Neph's RT.
Originally posted by FreshestSliceI already explained why Vitiate wouldn't hold his power, also I don't have to show shit. HoT still defeated a Vitiate with better force feats than both Anakin and Dooku in a dark side nexus. You need to prove the feat is not usable but all I hear is lowballing based on speculations.
Not only does it not meant that, you'd also have to show Vitiate actually was bringing that full power against the HoT. But considering we already know the HoT can't face opponents in Anakin's tier on his own, not matching up in strength and being casually TK'd, the point is moot anyway.
That ritual he already failed, that we have no idea what it would actually do? I'm guessing it's not kill the galaxy since that would be counterproductive to ruling it with his Eternal Empire.
Which would be cool if the HoT overpowered Vitiate in the Force instead of just letting him walking into his lightsaber. And considering how Vitiate feels no pain, and he was being released from his body, I'm wondering what these shittier circumstances are.
So what if it failed? "The Emperor is determined to destroy the galaxy. It's him, or us." - Scourge after Vitiate's first attempted ritual. It doesn't in anyway mean that Vitiate no longer cared about it.
This has nothing to with what I said since Vitiate himself was sincere about his attempts to devour the galaxy. And of course none of this actually disproves the fact that Vitiate prepped for a 1000 years for that and still kept on having that drain ritual as his main priority. After all, he did still think he could pull it off which is made clear by the dialogue and literally the whole dialogue is about how Vitiate will devour the galaxy during the last missions. And Vitiate believes he will definitely be able to defeat HoT "Your striving is insignificant. Let your death be the same" pretty much makes that clear. So we also know he didn't have to lie to HoT to hide his alternative plans, which cancels out the "Vitiate was lying" stupidity.
Maybe he wanted the new empire as a backup and still wanted to kill the galaxy until he surpassed his fear of death with Ziost? Your speculations are no more valid than this tbh.
He managed to defend against his force attacks and then struck him down when near enough. Its a solid feat.
I said shittier because the way he left his body wasn't a non harmful one for Vitiate. He clearly suffered for being struck down there that way. One would have to be blind to not see Vitiate was actually trying to win there and it was very important for him to achieve his plans at that point.
Zakuul exists in Wild Space, which is inside the galaxy.
Originally posted by Sinious
I already explained why Vitiate wouldn't hold his power, also I don't have to show shit. HoT still defeated a Vitiate with better force feats than both Anakin and Dooku in a dark side nexus. You need to prove the feat is not usable but all I hear is lowballing based on speculations.
So what if it failed? "The Emperor is determined to destroy the galaxy. It's him, or us." - Scourge after Vitiate's first attempted ritual. It doesn't in anyway mean that Vitiate no longer cared about it.
This has nothing to with what I said since Vitiate himself was sincere about his attempts to devour the galaxy.
And of course none of this actually disproves the fact that Vitiate prepped for a 1000 years for that and still kept on having that drain ritual as his main priority. After all, he did still think he could pull it off which is made clear by the dialogue and literally the whole dialogue is about how Vitiate will devour the galaxy during the last missions.
And Vitiate believes he will definitely be able to defeat HoT "Your striving is insignificant. Let your death be the same" pretty much makes that clear. So we also know he didn't have to lie to HoT to hide his alternative plans, which cancels out the "Vitiate was lying" stupidity.
Maybe he wanted the new empire as a backup and still wanted to kill the galaxy until he surpassed his fear of death with Ziost? Your speculations are no more valid than this tbh.
He managed to defend against his force attacks and then struck him down when near enough. Its a solid feat.
I said shittier because the way he left his body wasn't a non harmful one for Vitiate. He clearly suffered for being struck down there that way. One would have to be blind to not see Vitiate was actually trying to win there and it was very important for him to achieve his plans at that point.
Originally posted by NephthysThe HoT has the best credentials out of the Jedi protags but even then is only stated to be the Jedi's "finest" or "greatest warrior" - this doesn't not necessarily imply the HoT is the most powerful in the Force, merely the best overall as a combatant, which as martial focused makes sense.
Being the strongest Jedi in TOR for most of the game for one, and continually getting more and more powerful. The HoT has more or less the best credentials out of all the protags, when all of the Force using ones measure up to Anakin and Dooku.
So that method of powerscaling doesn't work, frankly as a Force user I'd put both Nox and the Barsenthor above the HoT (and Wrath), and as the Force-orientated classes I think that is what is intended.
Nor does being a better duelist than any one TOR Jedi put him above Anakin or Dooku in skill.
Also the Outlander gives Arcann a decent fight, despite the carbonite damage and it's not suggested that Arcann can casually TK them.Because Anakin and Dooku could not do the same? Frankly I'd question whether Arcann could defeat either full stop.
Originally posted by SiniousI completely agree with you there, neither Anakin or Dooku have sufficient strength in the Force to overwhelm the HoT, but neither does he. And
I never said he is above them. I just disagreed with people saying he is outclassed or doesn't even belong in this fight. HoT was considered the order's finest way before his prime. Now we know HoT and Wrath are both melee focused combatants where Nox and Thor are more force oriented. So despite the fact that his best insceen showings are defensive force powers, one can logically understand that HoT is more of a duelist, as supported by swtor.com and the game itself of course "combining the foresight of the Force with unrivaled reflexes and practiced physical precision, the Knight turns combat into an art form, gracefully executing acrobatic feats in tandem with elegant lightsaber tactics". Add in the fact that he also finished mastering all lightsaber forms shortly after chp. 3 finale, it shouldn't be surprising that he relies more on dueling than force powers. Yet, he is still powerful enough to not get overwhelmed by someone with superior showings of raw power to anyone in this fight. And if you want to be reminded of the people he defeated throughout the game, you can check Neph's RT.
He wins 0/10 even if he puts up a great fight.
Well besides the fact that they are given the usual, "Strongest in generations" speech, Satele also called you the "greatest weapon against the Darkness" who would determine the fate of the entire Order, and blah, and blah, Knights of the Fallen Empire also calls them the "Champion of the Force," and Scourge stating them being the only one powerful enough to resist Vitiate lends me to believe the HoT is supposed to be the more powerful of the two. Lightsaber skills will only take you so far. There's also the Barsen'thor struggling with the First Son more than the HoT ever would, but that's more of an opinion than anything.