I think there's also the point of Jim Crow/"3/5s"/Grandfather Clause to consider. Slavery and who owned slaves is only a portion of that era's legacy. The Trans Saharan Slave Trade was actually far worse as far as the death, dehumanization, and mutilation of Africans is concerned, but hardly ever gets discussed contemporaneously because of the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade's fallout which led directly to contemporary issues like apartheid.
http://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-africa/white-slaves-barbary-002171
something else i didn't know.
1.25 million europeans were enslaved hundreds of years before afican chattel slavery.
Originally posted by MF DELPH
I think there's also the point of Jim Crow/"3/5s"/Grandfather Clause to consider. Slavery and who owned slaves is only a portion of that era's legacy. The Trans Saharan Slave Trade was actually far worse as far as the death, dehumanization, and mutilation of Africans is concerned, but hardly ever gets discussed contemporaneously because of the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade's fallout which led directly to contemporary issues like apartheid.
i didn't know this either. i never looked hard into this issue at all.
i also read that most of the infrastucture was destroyed during the civil war and the country as a whole didn't benefit much...only the 5% who owned slaves.
i personally have a hard time believing this but it explains the uber 5% rich that exist today.
Originally posted by Raisen
...did you know that black people also had white indentured servants. and african tribes sold the slaves in the first place.
Originally posted by RaisenReally?
http://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-africa/white-slaves-barbary-002171something else i didn't know.
1.25 million europeans were enslaved hundreds of years before afican chattel slavery.
You know where "slavery" comes from? Slav as in Slavic, as in Eastern European. Lot of people hate mentioning the white slaves being imported into Africa because it kills narratives.
Originally posted by Raisen
i wanted to see that movie but never got around to it.rob. i'm being called a racist for this thread. is this your opinion too? i know who i am and i'm no racist. i genuinely don't think a lot of people know about this stuff.
You're no racist. You're just a raisen in the sun!!
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Not sure what "narrative" it kills.
Nobody ever considers how they bought most those slaves, how slavery is still in effect in parts of Africa, how slavery has mainly been an African and an Asian thing, etc.
The 'narrative' as he refers to, and as you are probably more than aware of, is that slavery is chiefly a white injustice committed against black people.
Originally posted by Surtur
I think perhaps what he might mean is that some people at times act like the only people ever enslaved in the history of the world were black people.
Originally posted by krisblaze
Probably the narrative that the only slavery that ever occured was white murricans grabbing black folks in Africa.Nobody ever considers how they bought most those slaves, how slavery is still in effect in parts of Africa, how slavery has mainly been an African and an Asian thing, etc.
The 'narrative' as he refers to, and as you are probably more than aware of, is that slavery is chiefly a white injustice committed against black people.
Regardless of whether people were enslaved in other places, and regardless of the differences between different kinds of enslavement, the United States are still completely and very significantly influenced by the chattel slavery of African slaves, the treatment of these slaves, the treatment of them after they were freed, Jim Crow/segregation, racist employment practices, racially biased voter suppressment, racially biased drug laws, racially biased prison-industrial complex, etc. and there's still a lot of work to be done counteract these.
This whole thing is always a massive distraction, often used by people who think they have found out something clever when it turns out that people other than White Americans ever owned slaves. Oh brilliant, thanks for that, we never would have realised- that clearly changes everything.
Every single thing this argument tries to raise has not the slightest bearing on the American slavery issue.
Is the argument meant to be that only the US is blamed for slavery when it was a wider problem? If so, that's not true at all; all slave systems were progressively eliminated in European cultures and slavery as an idea became one of the first internationally abhorrent concepts (coming second to piracy). There were massive efforts expended to knock it out- with, ironically, the US being one of the major contributors to wiping it out in North Africa.
The whole point is that, amongst the great civilised nations, the US was the weird outlier in still having slavery and was justifiably criticised then and now for this reason. Even the brutal Russian autocracy outlawed serfdom before the US stopped slavery.
Is the idea that blacks get a free pass on owning slaves whilst whites do not? That's also gibberish- the black slave trading nations were hated for that reason (although plenty of greedy Europeans and Americans took advantage of the profit to be found in the market, outlawed though it was by the Royal Navy). But here's the thing- these were primitive nations. Slavery was something they didn't really understand yet as a bad thing- and before you think I am trying to give some sort of free moral pass here, absolutely not, but here's the thing- they would enslave anyone they could. They enslaved blacks mostly because poor, vulnerable blacks were easy to find, but they were happy enough to take whites before Europe and the US killed that off They were simply living by the law of the sword..
The point about the US was its very targeted and racist slavery system, enshrined into law, in a country that was meant to be- and certainly constantly professed itself to be- some sort of shining beacon of modern, ethical and just civilization. This was not the indiscriminate slavery system of brutal nations based on no more than power. The existence of a legal slavery system, targeted at blacks and hence denying blacks even the most basic of civil rights, based on the most profoundly wrong and immoral ideas of racial superiority, made a mockery of the US' claims to be a modern democracy and was a huge moral stain on the continent that is still not completely cleared to this day.
Is the idea that because extremely small numbers of black people in the US were also complicit in the slave trade that this in any way lessons the pain, suffering, despair and sheer evil caused by the above? If so, then this is simply a stupid idea.
So the right reaction to being told 'Did you know blacks owned slaves as well?' is- so what?
It;s similar with the 'Why did Lincoln free the slaves?' thing. That's a triviality. The American Civil War started about states' rights and free navigation of the Mississippi, but it became something very different in its course- it basically became about destroying this factor that shamed the US.
Most black people I've met from the US, some of whom I lived with for over a year, had more or less no clue about any other kind of slavery.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Regardless of whether people were enslaved in other places, and regardless of the differences between different kinds of enslavement, the United States are still completely and very significantly influenced by the chattel slavery of African slaves, the treatment of these slaves, the treatment of them after they were freed, Jim Crow/segregation, racist employment practices, racially biased voter suppressment, racially biased drug laws, racially biased prison-industrial complex, etc. and there's still a lot of work to be done counteract these.
I think this is the big one.
The segregation and racism continued so long after slavery was ended.
And people are still being forced in wage slavery 🙁
The thing about the enslavement of blacks vs the enslavement of other races is the level of dehumanization. Unlike other ethnicities, blacks were COMPLETELY stripped of their African cultural heritage.
And as far as African nations owning slaves, all those countries were tribal. The European nations that enslaved blacks were much more culturally and technologically developed and thus used their superior intelligence not to help but to exploit the less intelligent Africans. This horrific exploitation is the source of disproportionate anger towards whites compared to other slavery-practicing nations.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
It;s similar with the 'Why did Lincoln free the slaves?' thing. That's a triviality. The American Civil War started about states' rights and free navigation of the Mississippi, but it became something very different in its course- it basically became about destroying this factor that shamed the US.
It might be trivial, but it was merely brought up as a point of things that aren't usually taught to us in school. In my school at least we were taught that ol' Abe just had a hard on for freedom and that is why he wanted them free. Seems the topic, as much as it is about black slave owners, is also about the things they tend to leave out of a history class.
I don't think people would use this to try to justify whites enslaving people or make that whole situation look less..bad. I guess it's just..a situation that is not so black and white. Yep, pun intended.
Originally posted by Lestov16
The thing about the enslavement of blacks vs the enslavement of other races is the level of dehumanization. Unlike other ethnicities, blacks were COMPLETELY stripped of their African cultural heritage.
Are you saying in the history of slavery that the only slaves dehumanized were blacks in America? I would actually find that hard to believe. Surely we didn't invent treating slaves like shit.
And as far as African nations owning slaves, all those countries were tribal. The European nations that enslaved blacks were much more culturally and technologically developed and thus used their superior intelligence not to help but to exploit the less intelligent Africans. This horrific exploitation is the source of disproportionate anger towards whites compared to other slavery-practicing nations.
So now this sounds like you essentially are saying the africans are super mad at the whites partially because they took advantage of their stupidity?
I don't know if I'd call them a superior intelligence. They just had superior knowledge then the natives.
This whole thing is always a massive distraction, often used by people who think they have found out something clever when it turns out that people other than White Americans ever owned slaves. Oh brilliant, thanks for that, we never would have realised- that clearly changes everything.
This thread's been fun but i'm done. Too much SJWing for me. Thanks to everyone for letting me chime in.