Freeza vs Tien, Krillin, and Yamcha

Originally posted by Damborgson
I'm just going off of Frieza's personality, he doesn't fight like an idiot he's just over confident...which are one and the same sometimes.

He also goes right for the kill several times. Like when he gored Krillin, blasted Dende or when Goku first showed up and Frieza fired at him. And iirc he on shotted King Vegeta too.

The only reason Frieza wanted to fight was either against the Z-Fighters(whom pissed him off and he wanted to suffer) or against Nail(whom had information he wanted so he was basically resigned to beating it out of him). Other than that Frieza is not one to drag it out. He usually kills quickly

Both krillen and dende were surprise attacks. Characters weaker than the human team have landed blows on frieza.

Originally posted by juggerman
He also goes right for the kill several times. Like when he gored Krillin, blasted Dende or when Goku first showed up and Frieza fired at him. And iirc he on shotted King Vegeta too.

The only reason Frieza wanted to fight was either against the Z-Fighters(whom pissed him off and he wanted to suffer) or against Nail(whom had information he wanted so he was basically resigned to beating it out of him). Other than that Frieza is not one to drag it out. He usually kills quickly

I mean that's great but he's got a lot of showings where he doesn't.

Lol, other than every main character in saga he doesn't usually drag it out. Gohan, Piccolo, Goku and Vegeta were all tortured by Frieza at one point or another. Regardless of reason, he's a sadist and enjoys a nice round of torture. If some die as a result, that doesn't necessarily mean it's his intention just a result of the damage.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Both krillen and dende were surprise attacks. Characters weaker than the human team have landed blows on frieza.

Both were killing blows. Those shots against Goku were intended to be killing blows too. Again Frieza normally doesn't want to sully himself in an actual fight. That why he has henchmen do everything for him even tho he is right there and could easily do it himself. The only time he gets his hands dirty is when he has too or when he wants the opponent to suffer. No reason to hold a grudge against this human team. No reason to make it last

Originally posted by Damborgson
I mean that's great but he's got a lot of showings where he doesn't.

Lol, other than every main character in saga he doesn't usually drag it out. Gohan, Piccolo, Goku and Vegeta were all tortured by Frieza at one point or another. Regardless of reason, he's a sadist and enjoys a nice round of torture. If some die as a result, that doesn't necessarily mean it's his intention just a result of the damage.

Showings against people that have spent days/weeks undermining his plans and pissing him off. And of course, who were much stronger than the human team

Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta and Goku are all much more powerful than the humans. Frieza wasn't one shotting these guys because they were close to his power. And again, the Z Fighters spent days and weeks getting Frieza's blood pressure up and they took away his chance at immortality. To act as if he would react the same way in the instance of 3 much weaker guys who didn't royally piss him off as he would against the guys that worked him up so much that he wanted them to suffer is laughable. Frieza has no reason to hate the humans so much and therefore no reason to drag it out and make them suffer. He'd end it quickly and there's nothing they could do about it

Gohwn wasn't stronger when he was a kid.

Krillin at the time couldn't do what Gohan did to form 2 Freeza. And he did better then anyone against form 3 Freeza.

^Exactly

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Gohwn wasn't stronger when he was a kid.

The reason they inserted a question mark alongside Gohan's PL rating is because the guide also specifically notes that his PL could increase well beyond 200k in accordance with his rage--a he fact demonstrated against 3rd form Freeza(whose PL was, in all likelihood, over 2,000,000.)

Any way you cut it, Gohan>>>Krillin.

Powerlevels were only ever meant to show how ineffective the bad guys were at measuring stuff. Gero says yamcha is roughly how strong he calculated goku to be not factoring in super saiyan. Yamcha is the weskest human. So krillen and tien have to be stronger than basr goku when he landed on namek. Which is stronger than recoome who was stronger than gohan. To paraphrase "powerlevels are bullsh**

You've got it wrong.

Gero and #19 initially believed Yamcha was Goku, because Yamcha's energy reading at the time was right around what Goku's was during the Saiyan saga. Remember, the Saiyan saga is when Gero's 'intel' on the Z-Fighters ceased--he didn't follow them off-planet. That's why the Androids also believed said energy "exceeded all known human parameters"(even though the readings came from a human):
http://i.imgur.com/odAMUqc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rvCDcMJ.jpg

It wasn't until they physically saw Yamcha that they realized he was not Goku:
http://i.imgur.com/qrUWpVc.jpg

Anywho, even if we factor in the 4x kaio ken multiplier he briefly used against Vegeta, Goku's highest recorded PL during the Saiyan saga=32,000. IOW, Android-era Yamcha had a PL right around the 30k mark.

So gero assumes goku does zero training or improvrment for three years? He still knew about the gravity machine briefs made.

Gero had essentially become a computer. Hard data is what he based his assessments on, not guesstimations.

Plus, we were told that his intel on the Z Fighters stopped at the Saiyan saga. That's why their massive increases in power shocked the hell out of him.

he stopped following them but i'm pretty sure he tracked goku's growth rate. science is all predictions and guesstimations

The androids certainly would have been overkill with Saiyan Saga power levels.

Which makes you wonder what he was thinking with Cell. Way, way more power then he believed necessary, plus uncontrollable.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
he stopped following them but i'm pretty sure he tracked goku's growth rate. science is all predictions and guesstimations

He didn't track Goku after the Saiyan Saga at all. You're really just making things up now.

Originally posted by cdtm
The androids certainly would have been overkill with Saiyan Saga power levels.

Which makes you wonder what he was thinking with Cell. Way, way more power then he believed necessary, plus uncontrollable.

Gero knew Goku would get stronger than he was against Vegeta but he had no idea how much. He created the androids to eclipse not only Goku's known PL but to hopefully dwarf any potential gains as well. He couldn't know what Goku would eventually become so he erred on the side of caution

Gero didn't create Cell; his computer did. And that was 20 some odd years afterwards. I'm guessing it had a lot to do with the Z-Fighters being much stronger than anticipated or just because he wanted to create the ultimate being. Plus I'm sure Cell was supposed to be controllable; Gero's creations just like to act up

Originally posted by juggerman
He didn't track Goku after the Saiyan Saga at all. You're really just making things up now.

Gero knew Goku would get stronger than he was against Vegeta but he had no idea how much. He created the androids to eclipse not only Goku's known PL but to hopefully dwarf any potential gains as well. He couldn't know what Goku would eventually become so he erred on the side of caution

Dude, seriously? I'm not saying he tracked goku in space. I'm saying he tracked goku from his fight against tien to piccolo to raditz to vegeta and assumed if he followed that patern of growth guessed how strong he would be three years later.
You apparently agree with that, yes?

Originally posted by juggerman
Gero knew Goku would get stronger than he was against Vegeta but he had no idea how much. He created the androids to eclipse not only Goku's known PL but to hopefully dwarf any potential gains as well. He couldn't know what Goku would eventually become so he erred on the side of caution.

Originally posted by juggerman
Gero didn't create Cell; his computer did. And that was 20 some odd years afterwards. I'm guessing it had a lot to do with the Z-Fighters being much stronger than anticipated or just because he wanted to create the ultimate being. Plus I'm sure Cell was supposed to be controllable; Gero's creations just like to act up

And unlike the Androids, Cell's data was actually backed with knowledge of beings like Freeza, as well as SSJ transformations... He was still being created when the Z Fighters returned from Namek, so Gero's bug-drones were able to gather cells from the likes of Freeza and Trunks and add them to Cell's collective 'gene-pool'.

But yeah, Gero initially had no idea that Saiyans could transform, and subsequently boost their power(s) by a factor of 50x... That ability is what shocked the hell out of him, and forced him to activate #17 and #18 in a last ditch effort.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Dude, seriously? I'm not saying he tracked goku in space. I'm saying he tracked goku from his fight against tien to piccolo to raditz to vegeta and assumed if he followed that patern of growth guessed how strong he would be three years later.
You apparently agree with that, yes?

I misunderstood what you said. My bad.

And yes he did guess but Goku didn't follow the same rate. Goku's power grew well beyond anything Gero could have predicted while he was away

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
he stopped following them but i'm pretty sure he tracked goku's growth rate. science is all predictions and guesstimations

You're talking out the booty hole with no known facts. We know which Goku he stopped his reading at, him trying to guess what Goku power level was after that is up for you to prove. What does this mean since we have KNOWN facts, Power levels are relevant.

Originally posted by juggerman
I misunderstood what you said. My bad.

And yes he did guess but Goku didn't follow the same rate. Goku's power grew well beyond anything Gero could have predicted while he was away

Where have you been? I wonder why you stopped posting in Dragonball threads.

🙂