WW3 Black Adam vs DOS Doomsday

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wait wut are u guys arguing about?

I'm asking him who in that line up was physically above Adam strength wise.

Originally posted by carver9
Debate it here. Who's physically stronger than Adam on the field?

To start:

Alan Scott.
Johnny Thunder (the 5D imp).

Edit: oh crap, did you think I was going to say Martian Manhunter? Wonder Woman? Power Girl? Nah.

I mean, even PLASTIC MAN has better strength feats than them!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
To start:

Alan Scott.
Johnny Thunder (the 5D imp).

So Allen Scott is PHYSICALLY stronger than Adam?

What fts does Johnny have?

Originally posted by carver9
So Allen Scott is PHYSICALLY stronger than Adam?

What fts does Johnny have?

Alan's strength is magical, based on the Starheart. The constructs he makes, are physically strong.

If he punches you with a a giant fist, or holds you in chains, than his constructs are stronger than you.

Physically.

As for the imp, remember his fight with LKZ?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/114690/2172708-lkz.jpg

Incidentally, Plastic Man was wrestling evenly - and was even RESTRAINING - Fernus the Burning, the same guy who was simultaneously wrestling the entire JLA at once.

Sigh

BA was just lucky it was HawkGIRL on the field, not Hawkman:

Of course, as per carver's suggestion, Alan and his constructs aren't 'strong'. So this beatdown is purely due to Hawkman's strength.

Off topic, of course. BA wins 👆

What does stronger mean to you?

Being able to restrain that person A, or other persons better than person A.

Conversely, if someone tries to restrain you, if you are stronger, you can break free (so for example, if a GL tried to restrain BA, then him breaking out of it is absolutely a strength feat, just as it is a strength feat if he is restrained by a GL).

Other examples of being stronger include lifting/moving something that person A has not been shown to lift/move.

Just another example (you brought up GL):

Is GL pulling Earth with Superman? Or is it Superman's strength alone?

You guys are arguing semantics.

Here is the reason for it.

Carver has a mad-on for that scene, whereas I am arguing that MMH's words are quite indicative.

Black Adam, during WW3, did not pwn everyone because he was stronger, or faster, or more powerful. But because he was more ruthless.

Whilst MMH's words are indicative, they are not the be-all and end-all. We also go by feats. And by feats, BA is NOT stronger, or faster, or more powerful than every single combatant there on their own.

Here, he is fighting a guy who is just as, if not more, ruthless than he was.

So THAT advantage is gone.

However, BA still has the magic advantage, something that Doomsday has never encountered before.

i don't think the magic would mean anything in this fight. he's not shooting spells or anything, and i don't think the lightning would do anything significant to dd. adam did well because so many were trying to SUBDUE him as opposed to kill him. most were holding back. and notice the big guns who were NOT there....

phil said it--any top tier who goes crazy could replicate a similar feat, when the other guys are holding back. in fact, adam's insanity may get him killed SOONER in this fight as all he'd try and do is overwhelm dd--a feat her couldn't accomplish imo.

Why cant he accomplish it?

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't think the magic would mean anything in this fight. he's not shooting spells or anything, and i don't think the lightning would do anything significant to dd. adam did well because so many were trying to SUBDUE him as opposed to kill him. most were holding back. and notice the big guns who were NOT there....

phil said it--any top tier who goes crazy could replicate a similar feat, when the other guys are holding back. in fact, adam's insanity may get him killed SOONER in this fight as all he'd try and do is overwhelm dd--a feat her couldn't accomplish imo.

I'm not turning him into Fate or something....but when fighting against Prime, for example, his punches were magical - and he was obviously deliberately putting magic into his punches (hence his surprise at SBP's words):

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/60461/1514352-879672_blackadamfail1_super.jpg

Edit: we know that Superman is a peer to Supes, Cap Marvel et al. So he is incredibly strong.

Stronger than DoS Superman? Arguably.

On TOP of that, his punches are also magic, which is unfamiliar to Doomsday. Nor will he hold back like Superman did in his first encounter with DoS Doomsday, which enabled him to steadily get stronger and stronger.

I always thought Plastic Man was just the better shape shifter. If you are arguing he can legit overpower class 100's does he have any other feats on that level?

Originally posted by carver9
Why cant he accomplish it?

because dd is too strong for him to beat down. 😐

as was shown, adam was put on the ropes by hawkman--and he'd have been ko'd had he not stopped the beating. dd is MORE savage then even this adam, stronger than anyone adam faced, as fast as anyone and FAR more durable. you really think adam would have beat down superman had he been there and been trying? not this guy....

as for magic punches--still don't see it being a difference maker. dd can adapt very quickly. i think dd took time to raise his strength because superman raised his own efforts only very slowly. i don't see adam overwhelming dd at all, and after a couple punches dd would have figured it out. also, those punches may have been amped against prime, but they didn't do anything. and i don't think dd would have any magic weakness to begin with anyway. to win, adam would need to ko him almost immediately. there has never been any indication that ANY herald could be capable of doing that to doomsday. least not imo.

Originally posted by Surtur
I always thought Plastic Man was just the better shape shifter. If you are arguing he can legit overpower class 100's does he have any other feats on that level?

I'm saying in direct comparison, Plastic Man was the better shapeshifter, and was immune to telepathy.

That was it.

Everything else, Fernus still had.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/59300/4679097-7845527227-z20r..jpg

And you can clearly see Plas knocking the bejeezus out of Fernus, someone who was owning the combined JLA several times. I mean, he was actually rugby tackling him through buildings:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3042723-fernus2bw8.jpg

Prob PIS, but hey, based on these feats, he IS stronger than WW and the others who faced BA!

Well you say better shapeshifter, which I agree, but then you say based on those feats he is stronger physically. I am in 100% agreement on that if you base it on those feats. I was wondering if he ever showed that kind of strength on other occasions.

Originally posted by Surtur
Well you say better shapeshifter, which I agree, but then you say based on those feats he is stronger physically. I am in 100% agreement on that if you base it on those feats. I was wondering if he ever showed that kind of strength on other occasions.

True, Batman never DID mention 'strength' as an advantage for Fernus.

There's Captain Marvel (old scan, though):
http://i.imgur.com/NLJz7ZQ.jpg

Martian Manhunter:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/148326/3926183-2760690541-26506.png

REstrained Despero...for a biiit:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11113/111131028/3398766-tearrrr.jpg

Whilst 'mollycoddling' WW, at least ensnares her for a split second.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/84761/3991144-1229834_858x1046.jpg

Sure, the last two are kinda crap as far as feats go. But Despero is no weakling, AND he was using his energy blasts as well. And WW, considering her strength feats, was still brought down to one knee.