Ranking from birth among the most elite in the Sith Empire, (sith warriors)'s deadly skills and command of the dark of the Force have become legendary. Lightsaber in hand, (Sith warrior) has carved a path of destruction through Republic foes and scheming Sith adversaries alike.
Path of Destruction
Better than Bane confirmed.
Originally Posted by SW_LeGenD
Force powers:-The Emperor's Wrath is officially promoted as a champion of the Dark Side of the Force. We can safely assume that he is a master of a number of Dark Side abilities.
Champion of the Dark Side
An unstoppable force of darkness, the Sith Warrior is entrusted with the task of destroying the Empire’s enemies and enforcing Sith domination across the galaxy. The Warrior channels the destructive emotions of fear, anger, and hatred to purge weakness from body and mind and become a being of pure, brutal efficiency. (Taken from SWTOR)
&
There's no denying you are a master of the dark arts now. Only the most accomplished among us are named as lords among the Sith. You have more than earned the distinctions. I hereby confer the title of Sith Lord upon you. As lethal as you must be to become a lord, a Darth is the embodiment of death. Don't forget that. (Darth Baras)
Originally Posted by SW_LeGenD
The Emperor's Wrath outmaneuvered Lord Draahg and Force-pushed him off the platform in a confrontation:
Draahg is not to be underestimated. As the chosen apprentice of both Baras and Vengean, he possesses a breadth of knowledge and a depth of power few others can claim. (Taken from SWTOR)
Originally Posted by SW_LeGenD
The Emperor's Wrath destroyed an avatar of Sel Makor:-
NOTE: Valkorion and Sel Makor were struggling for the control of this avatar. However, the setting favored Sel Makor's influence over this avatar.
Originally Posted by SW_LeGenD
Look at the speed of this attack:
Two of the mercenaries vanished into the forest, crashing through the underbrush. The third-the one who had paused to look back- stood still as stone. A second later his head toppled forward from his shoulders to bounce and roll across the ground, severed from the cauterized stump of his neck by the crimson blade of Bane's thrown lightsaber. As if the fallen head were a signal, the rigid limbs of the decapitated corpse went suddenly limp, and it fell over sideways.
Originally Posted by SW_LeGenD
Stealth capabilities:
But even taking this at face value, fooling one no-name Jedi with this power does not prove he can evade the senses of a Sith as powerful as Darth Bane, particularly when Bane as of POD has demonstrated an aptitude for probing for concealed traps with the Force.
Spoiler:
later on in ROT, Bane demonstrates the casual ability to dispel such illusions of concealment, but I'm having too much fun using only POD/early ROT feats
Originally Posted by SW_LeGenD
The Emperor's Wrath could resist telepathic powers of the Dread Masters:
Originally Posted by SW_LeGenD
Strength and dueling effectiveness:-The Emperor's Wrath was arguably unparalleled in the area of Jedi dueling arts during his era:
The Sith Warrior's skills with a lightsaber are unrivaled. (Taken from SWTOR)
Originally Posted by SW_LeGenD
The Emperor's Wrath possessed great strength and his blows were overwhelming. Few in the Empire could hope to exchange blows with the Emperor's Wrath and live to tell the tale:Driving at their enemies with strong, crushing blows, the Warrior quickly beats his foes into submission or death. (Taken from SWTOR)
&
Born for battle, few opponents can withstand the rage-fueled blows from the warrior's lightsaber or penetrate a warrior's armor. If dual wielded lightsabers can't finish the job, there is always Force Choke to bring an opponent to his knees. (Taken from SWTOR)
Wrath's strength isn't going to tear through a strength based duelist like Bane.
Originally Posted by SW_LeGenDProtective measures:-
The Emperor's Wrath likely used special gear to protect himself from a number of external threats:
Despite their reliance on their strength in the Force, Warriors have no compunction about donning heavy and intimidating suits and armors. Unthreatened by the use of technology for biological augmentation, Warriors’ vestments often make use of dangerous and experimental components which imbue the wearer with immense strength and fortitude. (Taken from SWTOR)
&
Born for battle, few opponents can withstand the rage-fueled blows from the warrior's lightsaber or penetrate a warrior's armor. (Taken from SWTOR)
And Bane's own durability is rather formidable, as he survived a ship crash that cut a kilometer long swath through the jungle and reduced his ship to a pile of scrap.
Originally Posted by SW_LeGenD
The quantifiable demonstrations of the Emperor's Wrath might not tell you much about his capabilities (due to nature of the medium) but his accolades and position in the Empire say it all.While the first Emperor's Wrath was chosen by the Emperor under special circumstances, the second one acquired this rank purely on merit:
After Lord Scourge shed the mantle of the Wrath under mysterious circumstances, the Emperor's Hand set out to find a replacement. Millions of the galaxy's most powerful Sith were considered, but ultimately only one would prove worthy to serve the Emperor. (Taken from SWTOR)
The Emperor's Wrath certainly proved his mettle by defeating some of the most powerful foes in the galaxy on different occasions.
And keep in mind, every counter I have made I have done so using only feats from Path of Destruction or the very beginning of Rule of Two which takes place only a few days after Path of Destruction. This is nowhere near Bane's prime. If you want to convince me the Wrath can beat DOE Bane or is even on his level, you're going to have to do better than that.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah Bane literally has all of that by the end of POD/beginning of ROT
There was an air of menace about him, accentuated by his shaved head, his heavy brow, and the dark intensity of his eyes. This, even more than his forbidding black armor or the sinister hook-handled lightsaber dangling from his belt, marked him as a man of fearsome power: a true champion of the dark side of the Force.
-Darth Bane: Rule of Two
Originally posted by Emperordmb
He's also noted as the most powerful Dark Lord in centuries, and as being more potent with the dark side than Lake Nath or the Sith Sorceress who devastated Ambria, and he was weakened by poison for the latter of the two.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
And Bane collapsed a temple with one portion of a force wave and would've liquefied someone with the other portion of the force wave. Next!
Darth Bane unleashed a Force-wave that packed sufficient kinetic energy to destroy an ancient building and disintegrate a virtually defenseless being but Lord Kas'im was not virtually defenseless.
Lord Kas'im experienced the same kinetic energy that the Rakatan Temple experienced. You understand how the Force-wave manifests?
There was nothing subtle about Bane's attack: the massive shock wave shook the very foundations of the great Rakatan Temple. The concussive blast had enough power to shatter every bone in Kas'im's body and pulverize his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid. But at the last possible instant he threw up a shield to protect himself from the attack.
Taken from Star Wars: Darth Bane - Path of Destruction
The aforementioned feat is a good indicator of raw power wielded by Darth Bane but it is useless to cite in the same breath. If Darth Bane had mortally wounded Lord Kas'im with his Force-wave, then I could see your point. However, Lord Kas'im became a victim of the circumstances:
Unfortunately, he couldn't shield the Temple around him. The walls exploded into great chunks of rubble. The archway collapsed in a shower of stone, burying Kas'im beneath tons of rock and mortar. A second later the rest of the roof caved in, drowning out the Twi'lek's dying screams with a deafening rumble.
Taken from Star Wars: Darth Bane - Path of Destruction
---
FYI: A powerful Force-user can one-shot (kill) a virtually defenseless being with a mere Force-push. And Force-wave is relatively more potent expression of telekinesis.
---
Collapsing structures (and similar stuff) are a spectacle to behold and worth boasting about in debates but such feats are seldom practical or meaningful in a confrontation against powerful Force-users.
Example 1:
Satele Shan disintegrated a blast door with a touch and proceeded to confront a member of the Dark Council (i.e. Darth Mehkis). We learn (later) that Darth Mehkis was able to avoid arrest.
Example 2:
Two members of the Dark Council (Darths Victun and Qalar) declared a Kaggath to settle their long-term rivalry; they literally ruined the setting (i.e. the original Citadel of Dromund Kaas) with their powers but none of them managed to best the other in the end.
Example 3:
Valkorion (in his most vulnerable condition) was strong enough to collapse a building but such raw power was insufficient to humble Hero of Tython.
---
If Darth Bane couldn't dominate/kill Lord Kas'im with his telekinetic powers, I don't see how he can achieve a breakthrough against the Emperor's Wrath with the same. Fanciful interpretations fail to do justice to your argument.
On the other hand, the Emperor's Wrath could affect another powerhouse (e.g. Lord Draahg) with his telekinetic powers. Based on this meaningful demonstration, I can safely infer that the Emperor's Wrath is strong enough to affect the likes of Darth Bane with his telekinetic powers.
Case closed.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
So Vitiate was keeping that power subdued to a considerable extent, in much the same way his voice was weakened before HOT killed him.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
A handful of steps from freedom, one of the men made the fatal mistake of glancing back over his shoulder to see whether their adversary was following. On a whim, Bane sent his lightsaber hurtling toward him with a casual toss. The spinning blade sliced through the air in a tight loop, crossing the expanse of the camp in a fraction of a second before swooping back to be caught in the waiting hand of its Master.Two of the mercenaries vanished into the forest, crashing through the underbrush. The third-the one who had paused to look back- stood still as stone. A second later his head toppled forward from his shoulders to bounce and roll across the ground, severed from the cauterized stump of his neck by the crimson blade of Bane's thrown lightsaber. As if the fallen head were a signal, the rigid limbs of the decapitated corpse went suddenly limp, and it fell over sideways.
-Darth Bane: Rule of Two
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I question the validity of the trailers as legends material in regards to the protag's abilities since we have never seen the wrath use stealth capabilities in combat during his story line.But even taking this at face value, fooling one no-name Jedi with this power does not prove he can evade the senses of a Sith as powerful as Darth Bane, particularly when Bane as of POD has demonstrated an aptitude for probing for concealed traps with the Force.
Spoiler:
later on in ROT, Bane demonstrates the casual ability to dispel such illusions of concealment, but I'm having too much fun using only POD/early ROT feats
Darth Bane might be very good in evaluating his surroundings, but we are talking about stealth capabilities of an equal and/or superior opponent.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Telepathy really won't factor into a fight against Bane, so this is pointless.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Bane drove a saberstaff wielding Kas'im into a desperate retreat, and Kas'im was the greatest duelist in the brotherhood of darkness, mastered all seven forms, then spent decades perfecting every single move and sequence of lightsaber combat (many sequences blended several forms at once). And this Kas'im would've near instantly stomped an earlier incarnation of Bane who soloed a dozen tuk'ata with his lightsaber skills alone while hungry and sleep depraved.
Doesn't it makes you wonder that Lord kas'im was supposedly unparalleled in Jedi dueling arts yet Darth Bane was able to stalemate him without considerable experience?
On the other hand, the Emperor's Wrath is officially implied to possess unparalleled dueling skills. The statement is not even era-specific. On top of arguably unparalleled dueling skills, the Emperor's Wrath have considerable experience under his belt.
You really cannot establish Darth Bane's superiority in this area, period.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Prior to having training in the Force, Bane caught and completely stopped a punch from a heavily muscled cortosis miner and threw him over his head while exhausted, and he knocked out his leiutenant with a single punch. With a little training in the Force, Bane was knocking one of the more powerful apprentices in the Korriban academy to the ground with the Force of his strikes. Sirak at this point in time physically dominated this incarnation of Bane, staggering him with the Force of his blows while he was toying with him. This is important because after training a lot more, Bane ripped Sirak's saberstaff out of his hands with the force behind one of his blows.Wrath's strength isn't going to tear through a strength based duelist like Bane.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Nothing there proves that the warrior's armor is lightsaber resistant, as few of the opponents he would come across actually possess lightsabers. Bane has had no trouble at all cutting through completely blaster proof armor like butter as of the very beginning of ROT.
Thick durasteel armor shields warriors from devastating attacks.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
Body armor of the Emperor's Wrath might not be (100%) Lightsaber-resistant but it would be durable enough to withstand some blows and reduce the risk of suffering a serious injury during a confrontation.
For example, the body armor of Darth Malgus enabled him to endure some cuts and stabs during confrontations that might have been nearly fatal otherwise:
He must have sensed his danger at the last moment for he slid partially aside. Still, the green line of Master Zallow's blade pierced his armor and his side and elicited a snarl of pain and rage. Before Aryn could follow up, Malgus drove an open hand into the side of her face.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived
Also, it is foolish to assume that the Emperor's Wrath encountered a few Lightsaber-wielding foes. His lived in a different era under vastly different circumstances than Darth Bane.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
And Bane's own durability is rather formidable, as he survived a ship crash that cut a kilometer long swath through the jungle and reduced his ship to a pile of scrap.
People have walked unscathed from terrible accidents in real life.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yep, and Bane was the most powerful Dark Lord in centuries as of POD, was almost unanimously regarded by the brotherhood as its most powerful member, and was driving back the brotherhood's greatest duelist.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
And keep in mind, every counter I have made I have done so using only feats from Path of Destruction or the very beginning of Rule of Two which takes place only a few days after Path of Destruction. This is nowhere near Bane's prime. If you want to convince me the Wrath can beat DOE Bane or is even on his level, you're going to have to do better than that.
I expect Darth Bane, at his prime, to have sufficient raw power to collapse a building in a neutral setting and affect a number of powerful Force-users [1 on 1] with his powers. But nothing grand from him. He isn't in the league of elites like Revan and Yoda.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What do you mean by this?Darth Bane unleashed a Force-wave that packed sufficient kinetic energy to destroy an ancient building and disintegrate a virtually defenseless being but Lord Kas'im was not virtually defenseless.
Lord Kas'im experienced the same kinetic energy that the Rakatan Temple experienced. You understand how the Force-wave manifests?
There was nothing subtle about Bane's attack: the massive shock wave shook the very foundations of the great Rakatan Temple. The concussive blast had enough power to shatter every bone in Kas'im's body and pulverize his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid. But at the last possible instant he threw up a shield to protect himself from the attack.
Taken from [B]Star Wars: Darth Bane - Path of Destruction
The aforementioned feat is a good indicator of raw power wielded by Darth Bane but it is useless to cite in the same breath. If Darth Bane had mortally wounded Lord Kas'im with his Force-wave, then I could see your point. However, Lord Kas'im became a victim of the circumstances:
Unfortunately, he couldn't shield the Temple around him. The walls exploded into great chunks of rubble. The archway collapsed in a shower of stone, burying Kas'im beneath tons of rock and mortar. A second later the rest of the roof caved in, drowning out the Twi'lek's dying screams with a deafening rumble.
Taken from Star Wars: Darth Bane - Path of Destruction
---
FYI: A powerful Force-user can one-shot (kill) a virtually defenseless being with a mere Force-push. And Force-wave is relatively more potent expression of telekinesis.
---
Collapsing structures (and similar stuff) are a spectacle to behold and worth boasting about in debates but such feats are seldom practical or meaningful in a confrontation against powerful Force-users.
Example 1:
Satele Shan disintegrated a blast door with a touch and proceeded to confront a member of the Dark Council (i.e. Darth Mehkis). We learn (later) that Darth Mehkis was able to avoid arrest.
Example 2:
Two members of the Dark Council (Darths Victun and Qalar) declared a Kaggath to settle their long-term rivalry; they literally ruined the setting (i.e. the original Citadel of Dromund Kaas) with their powers but none of them managed to best the other in the end.
Example 3:
Valkorion (in his most vulnerable condition) was strong enough to collapse a building but such raw power was insufficient to humble Hero of Tython.
---
If Darth Bane couldn't dominate/kill Lord Kas'im with his telekinetic powers, I don't see how he can achieve a breakthrough against the Emperor's Wrath with the same. Fanciful interpretations fail to do justice to your argument.
On the other hand, the Emperor's Wrath could affect another powerhouse (e.g. Lord Draahg) with his telekinetic powers. Based on this meaningful demonstration, I can safely infer that the Emperor's Wrath is strong enough to affect the likes of Darth Bane with his telekinetic powers.
Case closed.[/B]
Many people try to argue Kas'im's defenses as proof that Bane's power is inapplicable, but the truth of the matter is that Kas'im just has very good Force defenses.
Collapsing the temple of the ancients is still a feat that surpasses anything the Wrath has ever done with his powers.
And no, the Wrath pushing Draahg is certainly not proof that he can affect Bane with telekinesis because Draahg has literally nothing putting him on Bane's level in Force power (Bane is more potent than Lake Nath), telekinesis (Bane collapsed the temple of the ancients), or Force defenses (Bane shielded himself from atmospheric reentry).
By that logic, Bane can ragdoll Wrath because he could do so to Qordis and Yevra, two Sith Masters. And shit, while we're at it, Githany has shielded herself from the large explosion of a vehicle she was sitting on and Kaan could've crushed her like a bug with the Force, and Kaan knew he would be absolutely no match for Bane in a contest of the Force.
Spoiler:
And going into later on feats, Bane as of ROT after losing his orbalisks while too injured to stand could've snapped Zannah's neck in two with the Force if he wished, and Zannah at this point has already shielded herself from a lightning storm which devastated the landscape of Ruusan, snapped two Jedi's necks, and disintegrated her cousin's arm, and is also implied to have power comparable to Lake Nath)
The talents of the Emperor's Wrath have not been canonized so far; therefore, we are left with ambiguities in this case. It isn't wise to dismiss an officially advertised talent of a character, IMO. Revan's example is in front of you; his known talents fully complement his story.
Darth Bane might be very good in evaluating his surroundings, but we are talking about stealth capabilities of an equal and/or superior opponent.[/B][/QUOTE]
1. He has never demonstrated this stealth against an opponent even nearing Bane's level or his own.
2. If we're counting the trailer as legit he's only used this ability once and just about never makes use of this ability in combat.
3. The trailer shouldn't be taken as legit because various segments of the trailers and progressions contradict each other. In the trailers and progressions, the protags are shown as varying species and varying specializations. This power, if it can even be counted at all, is only attributed to the marauder class, and we don't know if the Wrath is a marauder or juggernaut. Could very well be either one.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am fully aware of the fact that Lord Kas'im was a master swordsman. However, you are describing Darth Bane's opinion about his skills.Doesn't it makes you wonder that Lord kas'im was supposedly unparalleled in Jedi dueling arts yet Darth Bane was able to stalemate him without considerable experience?
And you are arguing Bane defeating Kas'im isn't that impressive because Kas'im wasn't good enough to not be beat by Bane. You do realize the inherently flawed circular logic you are trying to push right? And so what if Bane is relatively inexperienced by that point in time, the dude's a prodigy, already has master swordsmen level feats before massive improvement, is comparable in power to the concentrated dark side energies of lake nath, and is the most powerful dark lord in centuries, and has attained massive amounts of knowledge from the holocron of the great Revan you've been wanking at every chance you got in your post.
And the fact that you're basing this off of Bane's inexperience is laughably ironic considering the fact that the protags do crap like slay the beast of marka ragnos (wrath) or defeat Khem Val and Skotia (Nox) extremely soon after beginning their training. You do realize that by this logic none of Wrath or Nox's opponents are too impressive since they defeat them without much experience... right?
This entire point you are making about why defeating Kas'im isn't as impressive as I am arguing is based around circular logic (which is always inherently wrong) and the belief that a lack of experience puts an insurmountable limit on how powerful one can be (which is an argument that really can't be used by someone championing a TOR protagonist).
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
On the other hand, the Emperor's Wrath is officially implied to possess unparalleled dueling skills. The statement is not even era-specific. On top of arguably unparalleled dueling skills, the Emperor's Wrath have considerable experience under his belt.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You really cannot establish Darth Bane's superiority in this area, period.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is still a lesser showing then literally launching a Jedi Knight in the air with physical blows.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Here:Thick durasteel armor shields warriors from devastating attacks.
Taken from [B]Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
Body armor of the Emperor's Wrath might not be (100%) Lightsaber-resistant but it would be durable enough to withstand some blows and reduce the risk of suffering a serious injury during a confrontation.
For example, the body armor of Darth Malgus enabled him to endure some cuts and stabs during confrontations that might have been nearly fatal otherwise:
He must have sensed his danger at the last moment for he slid partially aside. Still, the green line of Master Zallow's blade pierced his armor and his side and elicited a snarl of pain and rage. Before Aryn could follow up, Malgus drove an open hand into the side of her face.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived[/B]
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Also, it is foolish to assume that the Emperor's Wrath encountered a few Lightsaber-wielding foes. His lived in a different era under vastly different circumstances than Darth Bane.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
When did this happen? Also, this could be sheer luck on his part.People have walked unscathed from terrible accidents in real life.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
There aren't many centuries between the events of SWTOR and Rule of Two. Also, Darth Bane might be the strongest Sith since the demise of reconstitutend ancient Sith Empire but this doesn't implies that he didn't had rivals earlier.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Bane's showings on Lehon are amped by the setting, my friend. He would have become more powerful afterwards but his growth in power isn't to a degree that he puts his showings in Lehon to shame.I expect Darth Bane, at his prime, to have sufficient raw power to collapse a building in a neutral setting and affect a number of powerful Force-users [1 on 1] with his powers.
There aren't many centuries between the events of SWTOR and Rule of Two.It's two millennia...
we don't know if the Wrath is a marauder or juggernaut.In a sort of "canonical" sense (I'm fully aware TOR is Legends), when considering powers and feats, you take into account both advanced classes. For example, Nox (in a "canonical" sense) wields a saberstaff and is an amazing saber duelist with training in the arts of the Sith Assassin while still retaining the skills and mastery of a Sith Sorcerer. In the case of Wrath II, we assume that the Wrath wields two lightsabers and utilizes small personal shield generators and heavy protective armor while retaining mastery of the forms known by both advanced classes.
Originally posted by Tondemonai
In a sort of "canonical" sense (I'm fully aware TOR is Legends), when considering powers and feats, you take into account both advanced classes. For example, Nox (in a "canonical" sense) wields a saberstaff and is an amazing saber duelist with training in the arts of the Sith Assassin while still retaining the skills and mastery of a Sith Sorcerer. In the case of Wrath II, we assume that the Wrath wields two lightsabers and utilizes small personal shield generators and heavy protective armor while retaining mastery of the forms known by both advanced classes.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yes several powerful Force users can kill an opponent without a force barrier via telekinesis. Literally liquidating them is a completely different matter entirely. And it's extremely likely that Bane was trying to collapse the temple on him rather than kill him directly with telekinesis.
For the sake of argument, consider this; Darth Plagueis unleashed a Force-wave on some assassins, nearly atomizing them with it. However, do you think that the same power would nearly atomize Darth Bane?
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Many people try to argue Kas'im's defenses as proof that Bane's power is inapplicable, but the truth of the matter is that Kas'im just has very good Force defenses.
My point of contention is that Lord Kas'im proved that a powerful Force-user would be capable of withstanding telekinetic powers of Darth Bane. I believe that the Emperor's Wrath is better then Lord Kas'im.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Collapsing the temple of the ancients is still a feat that surpasses anything the Wrath has ever done with his powers.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
And no, the Wrath pushing Draahg is certainly not proof that he can affect Bane with telekinesis because Draahg has literally nothing putting him on Bane's level in Force power (Bane is more potent than Lake Nath), telekinesis (Bane collapsed the temple of the ancients), or Force defenses (Bane shielded himself from atmospheric reentry).
I am not sure about what to make of Lake Nath based point, it is meaningless.
Just like many TOR era characters, Lord Draahg is largely unknown in the context of abilities and talents. However, even limited information and showings imply that he was among the most powerful Sith; powerful and talented enough to be perceived as an asset by members of the Dark Council and challenge them in combat situations.
We can compare Lord Draahg and Darth Bane in three areas: Force Drain powers, strength and ability to multi-task during combat situations. In all areas, Lord Draahg have relatively superior showings. See below.
Lord Draahg utterly dominated Darth Vowrawn with his powers and would have eventually disintegrated him:
"In minutes, the great Darth Vowrawn will disintegrate." (Lord Draahg)
Do keep in mind that Lord Draahg fought two Sith Lords (i.e. the Sith Warrior and Darth Vowrawn) simultaneously, trapping the latter in a web of Death Field while fending off attacks of the Sith Warrior. Even though the Sith Warrior prevailed in the end, Lord Draahg was doing more work. Lord Draahg's overconfidence proved to be his undoing however.
Granted that Darth Vowrawn was past his prime during this time but he was still an above-average Sith. And a Sith Lord, powerful enough to utterly disintegrate Darth Vowrawn with sheer command of the Dark Side while (simultaneously) fending off the attacks of another, would not be less then an elite.
Keep in mind that Death Field (and similar manifestations) are one of the most difficult and taxing techniques to perform during combat situations. When Darth Bane conjured a manifestation of Death Field to defeat some cultists in a confrontation, he managed to sustain it by drawing on the power of a nearby nexus and feeding on the life-force of the victims. Darth Bane could not sustain this Force power on his own.
Moreover, I don't recall Darth Bane being able to contend with two powerful foes and multi-task on the same level as Lord Draahg managed to.
In addition to the above, Lord Draahg tolerated injuries that would have felled a lesser Sith; multiple Lightsaber stabs/cuts and 3rd degree burns. In each case, Lord Draahg was battle-capable. Only one method stopped him; severing his head from his body. You think that Darth Bane have comparable tolerance?
As far as telekinesis is concerned, I don't think that Lord Draahg would be lacking in this area by virtue of his considerable raw power.
Ponder over following revelations for a moment:
As the chosen apprentice of both Baras and Vengean, he possesses a breadth of knowledge and a depth of power few others can claim. (Taken from SWTOR)
-
"Baras held back when training you, but he taught me everything. And Darth Vengean showed me dark side secrets even Baras doesn't know." (Lord Draahg)
-
"Apologies, my lord. The attack was sudden. Unknown assailant, very powerful. Way out of our league, my lord. Lucky we got out of there in on piece." (Lieutenant Pierce)
-
Lord Draahg isn't inferior to the likes of Darth Bane and even the Sith Warror. Lord Draahg and the Sith Warrior were (more or less) equals or in the same TIER.
In the nutshell, the Sith Warrior affecting Lord Draahg with his powers, is sufficient to infer the same in the case of Darth Bane. I rest my case.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
By that logic, Bane can ragdoll Wrath because he could do so to Qordis and Yevra, two Sith Masters. And shit, while we're at it, Githany has shielded herself from the large explosion of a vehicle she was sitting on and Kaan could've crushed her like a bug with the Force, and Kaan knew he would be absolutely no match for Bane in a contest of the Force.
Originally posted by EmperordmbSpoiler:
And going into later on feats, Bane as of ROT after losing his orbalisks while too injured to stand could've snapped Zannah's neck in two with the Force if he wished, and Zannah at this point has already shielded herself from a lightning storm which devastated the landscape of Ruusan, snapped two Jedi's necks, and disintegrated her cousin's arm, and is also implied to have power comparable to Lake Nath)
Darth Zannah wasn't strong enough to challenge Darth Bane till the end.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
1. He has never demonstrated this stealth against an opponent even nearing Bane's level or his own.
Darth Bane doesn't have infallible senses. Under the right circumstances, any Force-user can be back-stabbed.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
2. If we're counting the trailer as legit he's only used this ability once and just about never makes use of this ability in combat.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
3. The trailer shouldn't be taken as legit because various segments of the trailers and progressions contradict each other. In the trailers and progressions, the protags are shown as varying species and varying specializations. This power, if it can even be counted at all, is only attributed to the marauder class, and we don't know if the Wrath is a marauder or juggernaut. Could very well be either one.
FYI; Darth Malgus was capable of masking his signature to make it extremely difficult for another Force-user to sense his presence from a distance.
Therefore, it shouldn't surprise someone if the Sith Warrior was a master of Force-concealment techniques. He is officially promoted as a champion of the Dark Side and we should not assume that he would have standard abilities only.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Kas'im mastering the Forms of lightsaber combat and spending decades perfecting every move and sequence is not opinion it's fact. And Bane sabersoloing a dozen Tuk'ata at a point in time at which Kas'im would've slaughtered him is also fact. And Kas'im being viewed as the greatest duelist in the Sith Order is corroborated by multiple opinions, so it's hardly invalid.And you are arguing Bane defeating Kas'im isn't that impressive because Kas'im wasn't good enough to not be beat by Bane. You do realize the inherently flawed circular logic you are trying to push right? And so what if Bane is relatively inexperienced by that point in time, the dude's a prodigy, already has master swordsmen level feats before massive improvement, is comparable in power to the concentrated dark side energies of lake nath, and is the most powerful dark lord in centuries, and has attained massive amounts of knowledge from the holocron of the great Revan you've been wanking at every chance you got in your post.
And the fact that you're basing this off of Bane's inexperience is laughably ironic considering the fact that the protags do crap like slay the beast of marka ragnos (wrath) or defeat Khem Val and Skotia (Nox) extremely soon after beginning their training. You do realize that by this logic none of Wrath or Nox's opponents are too impressive since they defeat them without much experience... right?
This entire point you are making about why defeating Kas'im isn't as impressive as I am arguing is based around circular logic (which is always inherently wrong) and the belief that a lack of experience puts an insurmountable limit on how powerful one can be (which is an argument that really can't be used by someone championing a TOR protagonist).
Darth Bane was able to hold his own against Lord Kas'im due to several factors and not just his dueling skills. Darth Bane was better then Lord Kas'im in the aspects of raw power and command of the Dark Side.
However, Darth Bane's superiority is not affirmed in this hypothetical confrontation. See above.
Darth Malgus's dueling techniques were stated to be flawless and he is counted (among) the greatest warriors of the Empire.
NOTE: The word flawless is synonym of the word perfect.
You talk about dueling expertise of Lord Kas'im and take pride in highlighting the fact that he spent decades honing his skills! But you should focus on the bigger picture; Lord Scourge spent centuries honing his skills and developing new abilities. He defeated over a thousand Jedi and Sith on different occasions and his experience and exposure to combat situations is second to none. On top of everything, he developed shatterpoint abilities to complement his skills.
So who gets the opportunity to replace an asset as valuable as Lord Scourge in the position of the Emperor's Wrath after the defection of the latter? None other then the Sith Warrior. And the latter is stated to have unparalleled dueling skills. Keeping in mind the history of some of his peers, one can imagine that the Sith Warrior might actually be unparalleled in dueling skills.
--
I am among those members who recognize greatness of Darth Bane and do not underestimate him. I stated this not long ago:
I expect Darth Bane, at his prime, to have sufficient raw power to collapse a building in a neutral setting and affect a number of powerful Force-users [1 on 1] with his powers. However, I also acknowledge greatness of TOR era legends and try to evaluate characters from a broader perspective rather then narrow-mindedness.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Officially implied? Not officially implied!
Could you provide the quote? And unless the quote says in history, then I highly doubt a quote from a TOR source can be applied to all of galactic history.
A Sith Warrior’s skills with a lightsaber are unrivaled. Driving at their enemies with strong, crushing blows, the Warrior quickly beats his foes into submission or death. Though the lightsaber is the Warrior’s primary method of attack, he also uses his dark command of the Force to paralyze, terrify, and kill. Protected by heavy armor and his powers of intimidation, the Warrior wades into the thick of the fight and unleashes pure hatred and fury to eliminate all who would stand against him.
Source: http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes/sith-warrior
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Except I can given that Kas'im is a better duelist than anyone the Wrath has demonstrated superiority over, and Bane did so waaay pre-prime. And if you can name a better duelist the Wrath has defeated I'll be willing to listen.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Arguable considering we have no knowledge of the Jedi Knight's own physical strength. But if you want to obsess over physicality, name a speed feat for the Wrath comparable to Bane moving faster than a room of near-Sith Masters can even see.
Born for battle, few opponents can withstand the rage-fueled blows from the warrior's lightsaber or penetrate a warrior's armor.
Taken from SWTOR
How is speed relevant in this matter?
Originally posted by Emperordmb
This is assuming the Wrath's armor is as good as Malgus's first of all, and secondly, POD Bane wears armor as well, ROT Bane wears Orbalisk armor, and DOE Bane can, while drugged, instantly throw up a cocoon of energy around his body that can repel lightsaber strikes. This really won't be an issue for him.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Few relative to the much much larger number of non-lightsaber wielding foes he must have encountered.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
When he crash landed on Dxun, and it wasn't sheer luck considering he was being repeatedly thrown around and slammed against the walls of the cockpit.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
You're saying the Wrath's position among the Sith puts him above Bane when Bane is the most powerful Sith of his time and centuries prior. The Wrath's position hardly proves his superiority here.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Except his growth in power kinda does tbh. Even as of the very beginning of ROT when he had two orbalisks affixed to his body, he could draw on them for more power than he had ever known before, which includes when he was on Lehon. With an additional decade's worth of experience, study of Freedon Nadd's knowledge, further study of Darth Revan's knowledge, and his body being almost completely covered in orbalisks, at the tail end of his orbalisk infestation Bane would've been substantially more powerful than he was at the very beginning with only two orbalisks. Bane as of the end of the tail end of his orbalisk infestation would benefit from the powerful force augmentation that comes from such power and the immense physical augmentation stemming from the orbalisk fluids being metabolized in Bane's bloodstream, yet Bane as of DOE has Force augmentation outstripping both of those things combined, attesting to the fact that DOE Bane is even more powerful in the Force than he was at the end of his orbalisk infestation.
In addition to his miraculous healing abilities, he felt stronger than he ever had. His senses were keener, his reflexes quicker.
Taken from Darth Bane: Rule of Two
Darth Bane peaked in power and capabilities with orbalisks (exceeding his raw power on Lehon) but began to decline during the events of Dynasty of Evil. The orbalisks offered certain advantages but they were killing Darth Bane.
More:
They healed him, made him physically stronger, and protected him against all manner of weapons. Now he began to question that belief. While it was true that he could channel his power through the creatures for a temporary increase in his abilities, over the long term they might actually be weakening him. They were constantly feeding on the dark side energies that flowed through his veins. Was it possible that, after a decade of infestation, his ability to draw upon the Force had been subtly diminished?
Taken from Darth Bane: Rule of Two
Nothing implies substantial growth in power in these revelations irrespective of the number of orbalisks attached to the Sith Lord.
This is what I said earlier:
"I expect Darth Bane, at his prime, to have sufficient raw power to collapse a building in a neutral setting and affect a number of powerful Force-users [1 on 1] with his powers. But nothing grand from him. He isn't in the league of elites like Revan and Yoda."
My assessment is accurate.
Do pay attention to my assessment of Lord Draahg however.