Yeah, with feats like that, it's best to take it at face value IMO. I mean we could speculate about what unseen forces may or may not have contributed to the feat but, ultimately, we can't prove it either way. So best not to break our heads about it. Regardless, it's still the best strength feat of anyone on the list.
Edit: And, like I mentioned previously, I am more curious as to where TethAdam got some of his numbers from. Because, from what I know, some are way off.
Yeah I was wondering the same thing. I was could to critique his results, but then I was like... Yeah, I didn't offer my opinion because I thought too many people were on the list, and it was too much. So I was like, yeah I'll just leave his alone.. at least he did one lol
Agree 100% on face value. We can't try and speculate on this or that, but the reality is, we can't prove a thing one way or another.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerBased on this 1000 Ton rock, take a very good look at the size of it and the woman standing next to it
Guess that's true enough. So you're right. Best just to chalk it up to the same kind of movie physics that make people go flying 15 feet from a shotgun blast.Just wondering where that 100 tons is coming from for Thing. If it's 2005/2007 version, it's way more than that. The piece of the London Eye he pressed over his head is significantly heavier than a 100 tons. Mind you, a lot of those numbers look off to me. When on Earth did movie Juggs show 200 ton strength class?
http://gizmodo.com/5701223/who-put-this-1000-ton-boulder-here
This video has all of hulks best strength feats in one
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Based on this 1000 Ton rock, take a very good look at the size of it and the woman standing next to ithttp://gizmodo.com/5701223/who-put-this-1000-ton-boulder-here
Not sure how showing me a picture of a big rock explains how you assigned some of those numbers to some of the people. What did Juggs do to suggest he could lift 200 tons? What did Colossus do to suggest he could do 100? What did the Engineer do to suggest he could even lift 5? Also, Tobey Spidey had better overall strength feats than Garfield, so don't see how those two can be equal. And, as mentioned before, Thing has literally pressed more than a 100 tons onscreen. And those are just some of the numbers that don't seem right to me.
I hate to ask, but how many of the films containing these characters have you actually watched?
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerAll of them.
Not sure how showing me a picture of a big rock explains how you assigned some of those numbers to some of the people. What did Juggs do to suggest he could lift 200 tons? What did Colossus do to suggest he could do 100? What did the Engineer do to suggest he could even lift 5? Also, Tobey Spidey had better overall strength feats than Garfield, so don't see how those two can be equal. And, as mentioned before, Thing has literally pressed more than a 100 tons onscreen. And those are just some of the numbers that don't seem right to me.I hate to ask, but how many of the films containing these characters have you actually watched?
Juggs was running through reinforced wall after wall after wall and they made it seem very easy. He also seemed to me that the writers wanted him to be much stronger than colossus.
Colossus was able to physically match a sentinel, both colossus and thing we're dropped from the height of planes, in Deadpool colossus was tossing angel dust 100 + ft with a single punch
After rewatching the films I don't think colossus is 100 tons. How much would you put him?
Do you think the Engineer would beat Captain America in a fight without his shield? The way he decapitated that guy with his bare hands.
Well, I have have a hard time imagining the Engineer (who likes around 9-10 feet? Maybe 6-700 pounds?) tossing a 800 lbs motorcycle with enough force to collapse a 2-ton jeep like tinfoil. I might be forgetting something, tho. What "feats" did the Engineer have that would put him at the level at ton-level strength?
I think when it comes to the Engineer vs Cap, one has to consider that Avengers movies are at best PG-13 and Aliens/Pred are all R-rated, allowing them a more liberal use of real world physics vs human (or android) anatomy. TBH, if Avengers displayed strength the way Aliens and Pred did, Widow would be a stain on the wall when Hulk backhanded her, Thor would be exploding ppl when he his kicks/punches and Cap would be punching holes thru ppl.
Would the Engineer beat shieldless Cap in a fight? If we use Cap's high end showing, probably not. Cap did well against Ultron (taking hits from him) who I would put well well past Engineer strength (I know he had his shield but even doing well against an Iron Man+ opponent should be enough).
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
All of them.Juggs was running through reinforced wall after wall after wall and they made it seem very easy. He also seemed to me that the writers wanted him to be much stronger than colossus.
Colossus was able to physically match a sentinel, both colossus and thing we're dropped from the height of planes, in Deadpool colossus was tossing angel dust 100 + ft with a single punch
After rewatching the films I don't think colossus is 100 tons. How much would you put him?
Do you think the Engineer would beat Captain America in a fight without his shield? The way he decapitated that guy with his bare hands.
Busting through concrete does not mean he can lift 200 tons. Iron Man and War Machine were tossing each other through reinforced concrete, marble etc. during their fight in IM2, yet no one here would suggest they can lift 200 tons. And that is personal interpretation. I didn't see anything onscreen to suggest that this was the implication.
And what did said Sentinels do to suggest they could lift a 100 tons? Two of them specifically copied Colossus' own powerset in order to match his strength, indicating that their base levels are below his. And 100+ feet is an exaggeration. Furthest knock he gave her was when he tossed her over that pile of rubble and her one boob popped out, and that was nowhere near a 100 feet. It was a lot closer to 50. And Goblin sent Tobey Spiderman flying several dozen feet and into a street lamp, hard enough to knock the thing over IIRC, but he also doesn't have 100 ton strength. Also, dropping from a plane is a durability feat, not a strength feat. Honestly, Colossus seemed to me to be around Tobey Spiderman strength, but has a massive advantage in durability, being straight up bullet proof.
And which Thing are you talking about? The 2005/2007 one, or the latest one? Because the latest one was crap, and didn't do anything to suggest he could even lift a 100 tons. The older version lifted the London Eye which, based on different sources, weighs somewhere between 1800 and 2100 tons. Granted he only lifted the wheel part, but that piece still weighs over a 1000 tons.
As for the Engineer vs Cap? Too little feats to go on IMO. The Engineer was portrayed as being quite strong, but we don't know just where his limits lie in that area. And we don't really know how his other stats compare to Cap's.
Edit: Also, as Nibedicus pointed out, the MCU films have to tone down the violence. I mean imagine if those films were r-rated, like the Netflix series? You'd have caved in skulls, bloody corpses and shattered limbs all over the place. Hell, forget Cap. Just imagine aftermath of one of Hawkeye's explosive arrows if they portrayed things more realistically.
The boulder that Kurse lifted was much less than the boulder I posted which is 1000tons, even smaller than than the small one in that picture.
The engineer was much stronger than humans. If cap is only peak human, then the engineer is stronger
And yes the London eye was 2000 Tons, putting that feat far FAR above the boulder Kruse lifted and more than 200 times heavier
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
The engineer was much stronger than humans. If cap is only peak human, then the engineer is stronger
Problem with that is that movie Cap isn't simply peak human, as his feats clearly portray him as being far beyond that physically. And even if he was only "peak" human in his universe, that does not necessarily mean he would be considered just "peak" human in a different setting. I mean how many "peak" humans are there that could do what Cap does at the 20 second mark here:
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
The boulder that Kurse lifted was much less than the boulder I posted which is 1000tons, even smaller than than the small one in that picture.The engineer was much stronger than humans. If cap is only peak human, then the engineer is stronger
And yes the London eye was 2000 Tons, putting that feat far FAR above the boulder Kruse lifted and more than 200 times heavier
Unless you're thinking the rock Kurse lifted is around 10 tons, then your math here is WAYYYY off.
I did the math some time back and I think the rock came down to about 400-500 tons depending on how tall Kurse is and some other assumptions (since it was irregularly shaped, I cut it in half and took the conical volume of each half and added them together. Assumption was Kurse is around 8 feet and that thing was 4 times width and 2.5 times height with equal radius based on that. Then used the standard weight of granite (165 lbs per m3). Granted there were a lot of assumptions as well as some estimations here and there, but it shouldn't be too far from that.
That's not 2000 tons but that's not 1/200 of what Thing lifted either.
Also, he threw that thing like what? 150-200 feet? Cleared the distance in 3 seconds. I'm not a physicist but I'm willing to bet that's at least (or close to) 1k ton in strength or close to it. And he wasn't even trying that hard.
Also, Cap is NOT peak human. Peak humans can't support a 800 lbs motorcycle over their heads while several women are standing on it with ZERO strain. Not the strongest man alive or ever, not even close to that.
And that rock in your picture is NOT 1000 tons. I would it in multiples of thousands. And I'm willing to bet the woman didn't mean literally 1000 tons as I doubt she weighed it.
Edit. Did the math on that rock picture, used the girl's assumed height of 5'6", and simply even assuming the rock was a complete circle (to get a ballpark figure), it was around 8.5 times her height in width. Came down to around 4.5k tons. Using the same math above (although I don't think that's granite).
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerYea that's much higher than peak human
Problem with that is that movie Cap isn't simply peak human, as his feats clearly portray him as being far beyond that physically. And even if he was only "peak" human in his universe, that does not necessarily mean he would be considered just "peak" human in a different setting. I mean how many "peak" humans are there that could do what Cap does at the 20 second mark here:
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
An 18 Wheeler full loaded is only 65 tons, the rock kuse lifted could be carried by a 18 wheeler...And click the rock picture again that I posted, it was much bigger than a 5 story house and it's only 1000 tons. Look at the girl standing next to it
I agree with your 1k of strength though
Again, I did the math, it goes to around 400-500 tons (ballpark weight). So your 200x comparison is just flat wrong.
And the rock picture you posted is an obvious guesstimate w/c isn't even close to the right weight of the thing, quit using it as a basis. Geeez.
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
What would be your order and tonnage?
Finally found the math I did back then. I think it was off so to get it a bit more close to exact, I did it again, this time with a ruler. 😛
It actually came down to 211 tons (the rock Kurse threw).
Essentially, I measured Kurse with a ruler using (0:51)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJneSSYTZFo
Setting the screen size til his height was at a bit less than 2.5 inches, used the ruler to measure height and width of the rock.
It came down to 7.5 inches width, 4.75 inches height. Converted using his height of 8 feet. It came down to: 25 feet width and 15.2 feet height (from that positioning).
Computed halves of a cone with 4 feet radius on each end (it was around his height per end, give or take), it came down to:
1285 m3 or 2570 m3 times 165 lbs/m3 comes out to 212 tons. Original estimates were wrong due to me using my fingers to measure and not a ruler. This should be closer to the proper weight measurement. Someone feel free to fix my math.
I will still stand by my original stance of him easily throwing that thing 200 feet at around 70 feet per second is def over 1000 tons in strength.
Originally posted by NibedicusSo with your equation, what would Kurse strengte be? And how would you order Thor and the rest?.
Finally found the math I did back then. I think it was off so to get it a bit more close to exact, I did it again, this time with a ruler. 😛It actually came down to 211 tons (the rock Kurse threw).
Essentially, I measured Kurse with a ruler using (0:51)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJneSSYTZFo
Setting the screen size til his height was at a bit less than 2.5 inches, used the ruler to measure height and width of the rock.
It came down to 7.5 inches width, 4.75 inches height. Converted using his height of 8 feet. It came down to: 25 feet width and 15.2 feet height (from that positioning).
Computed halves of a cone with 4 feet radius on each end (it was around his height per end, give or take), it came down to:
1285 m3 or 2570 m3 times 165 lbs/m3 comes out to 212 tons. Original estimates were wrong due to me using my fingers to measure and not a ruler. This should be closer to the proper weight measurement. Someone feel free to fix my math.
I will still stand by my original stance of him easily throwing that thing 200 feet at around 70 feet per second is def over 1000 tons in strength.