Galen Marek VS Mace Windu

Originally posted by Syndicate
Except as I showed in my last post Mace isn't capable of whooping Galen in sabers given their comparative feats. Even if he could he wouldn't be able to break through Galen's defenses before tiring out and being overwhelmed. Think about it like this. Vader was able to duel with Galen for hours until the latter passed out from exhaustion but in their final duel he only managed to fight him for minutes before becoming exhausted to the point Galen could overwhelm him. I'm sure Vader's endurance and power in the force is above Mace's so it stands to reason that he'd be defeated even more quickly by Galen if they were to enter a high intensity duel. The skill gap between them just isn't large enough for Mace to take it before Galen exhausts him or simply weakens him to the point where he can be overwhelmed with the Force. Hell I'm still think it might be possible for Galen to do this outright. Galen learned from Vader and trained with a module of Kenobi. Vaapad to kick in? What do you mean? Vaapad never worked as fully intended until Mace's final duel with Sidious and Galen by the end of TFU is a lightsider. Mace's pure skill advantage doesn't mean jack shit against a physically superior, more powerful and comparably skilled opponent like Galen who can keep up a high intensity duel indefinitely. Well then you're plain wrong. His force feats are superior, his physicals are superior with his endurance and force reserves being some of the greatest in the mythos and his skill feats are great. Lol Obi Wan? He'd be ragdolled. If you disagree with anything I've said prove me wrong.

Mace belongs to what is known as the golden age of the jedi, and has the feats to back it up. These feats involve his showings against Sidious, his accolades by other jedi masters, and his battle with Dooku, all of which are above Galen in sabers. Yes Galen is skilled, but in his prime he beat a Vader who wasn't in his prime. TFU II is arguably the better of the two versions, in which Galen had to rely on the force to defeat that vader and what he could best hope was a stalemate in that situation. How so? Mace is second only to Yoda, in the jedi order. Galen has a strong defense, but his defense isn't strong enough to turn this into a slugging match. he isn't going to make this come down to endurance. Galen doesn't have the Obi Wan defense to keep mace at bay for that long, while Mace has the aggressive and smart offense to break through before that times come. Again basically all of what you are saying, is hinged on the assumption Galen will make this a slugging match, and lets not kid ourselves, Mace has his won skill and endurance was well. Mace can last as well, while not for hours like Vader did with Galen, the whole situation is changed in which neither have met, so the don't have the ability to just turn this into a slugging match. Yes i have looked at both their feats, and yes Galen does have the more raw power as I've already admitted, but he has done absolutely nothing, that Mace either hasn't done, can replicate, or can stand against. Yes he stood against vader, but why don't you think Windu couldn't? Mace is powerful in his own right, and has demonstrated similar feats to Galen such as destroying huge armies, lifting ships, taking down heavy objects, etc. Heck Windu is even comparable if not even to Dooku who we've seen do some big feats. So i think you have fallen into the mold of Overestimating marek, and that translates here. Yes he has more power, but its not a big enough advantage Mace can fight.

Lol @ endurance. Tol Braga fought a Dark Council Member for days on end. Let's not kid ourselves with this, "tiring out" shit tbh 🙂

Mace struggling to push an armored Republic Transport >> any of Galen's force showings

Originally posted by carthage
Mace not getting force raped by Sidious >> any of Galen's force showings

🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Mace belongs to what is known as the golden age of the jedi, and has the feats to back it up. These feats involve his showings against Sidious, his accolades by other jedi masters, and his battle with Dooku, all of which are above Galen in sabers. Yes Galen is skilled, but in his prime he beat a Vader who wasn't in his prime. TFU II is arguably the better of the two versions, in which Galen had to rely on the force to defeat that vader and what he could best hope was a stalemate in that situation. How so? Mace is second only to Yoda, in the jedi order. Galen has a strong defense, but his defense isn't strong enough to turn this into a slugging match. he isn't going to make this come down to endurance. Galen doesn't have the Obi Wan defense to keep mace at bay for that long, while Mace has the aggressive and smart offense to break through before that times come. Again basically all of what you are saying, is hinged on the assumption Galen will make this a slugging match, and lets not kid ourselves, Mace has his won skill and endurance was well. Mace can last as well, while not for hours like Vader did with Galen, the whole situation is changed in which neither have met, so the don't have the ability to just turn this into a slugging match. Yes i have looked at both their feats, and yes Galen does have the more raw power as I've already admitted, but he has done absolutely nothing, that Mace either hasn't done, can replicate, or can stand against. Yes he stood against vader, but why don't you think Windu couldn't? Mace is powerful in his own right, and has demonstrated similar feats to Galen such as destroying huge armies, lifting ships, taking down heavy objects, etc. Heck Windu is even comparable if not even to Dooku who we've seen do some big feats. So i think you have fallen into the mold of Overestimating marek, and that translates here. Yes he has more power, but its not a big enough advantage Mace can fight.

Feats to back what up? That he was born in the "Golden Age." I'm sure the only evidence he needs is a birth certificate with a nice golden age stamp at the top. If you somehow couldn't tell I have a great disdain for people that argue characters are powerful because of the era they were shown in. Feats or gtfo.

Oh, his showings against Sidious? We're going there now are we? I don't think you want to flush your reputation away like this Emp. Unless you want to argue base Mace could accomplish what he did against Sidious. -___-

Ah accolades. Always the best gauge of someone's actual capabilities. 😖arcasm:

Battles with Dooku? You mean the spars they had when they were not yet in their primes and while Dooku was still apart of the Jedi Order which would have no relevancy on the capabilities of RotS Mace? Those battles with Dooku?

Except none of those things put him above Galen in sabers. Unless you want to argue beating Jedi Dooku is better then beating TFU Vader or that unsubstantiated accolades are better then hard feats.

First off. That was not Galen's prime. It was simply the most powerful we'll ever see him given that he expired shortly after that point. While this was not Vader's prime Vader has already had over a decades to rework his form and its noted in the novel itself that Vader has hybridalized his form. While I'm aware Vader improved he would not be hindered in any way by his new circumstances as he'd already been living with them for over a decade.

Vader definitely improved between TFUI and TFUII and he also planned for if one of the clones he was creating was to ever turn against him evidenced by his defensive stance in the second novel and the improvements to his armor. This means he specifically prepared for the fight. Also I don't believe there's anything suggesting Starkiller is more powerful.

An unsubstantiated statement that's debatable given his performance against Grievous, Grievous's performance against Dooku and Dooku's own performance against Anakin. Granted Dooku had the advantage of training Grievous and being intimately familiar with his fighting style and Anakin had a form and physical advantage over Dooku but obviously that statement either only BARELY places him above the rest of the Jedi or is simply false. Actually I believe there's a quote from the RotS novelization that states Anakin to be the fastest, strongest and most powerful Jedi of his generation. Oh here it is.

"The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest." - Revenge of the Sith.

So much for Mace being second to Yoda.

Regardless even if your own statement did supersede mine or we're now suddenly disregarding statements given the various performances of Jedi in that era throughout the mythos there's nothing putting Mace out of the range of the higher tiered Jedi in that era. Granted the PT era is full of powerful Jedi.

Also I'd like that quote as I'd like to see if it specifies what he's second in and when it was written.. Otherwise how am I supposed to know if he's the second most powerful, second most skilled, or second highest ranked? 😛

And what are basing that assumption off of? Mace's supposed superiority which is questionable at best.

Aggressive and smart offense? You mean like the one he used to break through Grievous's defense? Oh wait... The only opponents Mace has ever beaten purely with his lightsaber unamped has been a pre prime Ventress who he needed all his skills to defeat.

Nah, that's only one way Galen can win. The other way is him simply dominating Mace outright with TK.

What feats of endurance does Mace have to suggest this to you?

Why? Them not knowing eachother at all makes this even more likely to devolve to such a match. The fight would last longer because like Vader and Galen in their own fight they would need to test the capabilities of their opponent.

In the Force he's done plenty. I also question Mace's ability to defeat TFU Vader as convincingly as Galen or at all and finnally I question his ability to face entire armies before facing opponents/obstacles that would have given him a challenge in normal circumstances in an environment that favors his opponent given his fight against Kar Vastor where such circumstances were present and he lost badly.

Because Vader is physically superior, more powerful and arguably more skilled by that point.

You mean the droid armies. A good showing of force enhanced strength but not one Galen can't replicate or handle given his fight against Vader and Vader's own strength feats. Lifting ships? When? Heavy objects like a Star Destroyer or even thousands of droids? Doubtful.

Comparable sure but I don't believe Dooku is on Galen's level either.

I think you'd fallen into the mold of underestimating him.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Lol @ endurance. Tol Braga fought a Dark Council Member for days on end. Let's not kid ourselves with this, "tiring out" shit tbh 🙂

Great endurance feat for him but given their opponent it's likely that this would be within the realm of their capabilities. High intensity duels between force users exhausts you far faster then ones between weaker force users or non force users.

Mace roflstomps 10/10.

Are you guys just calling in people to say Mace wins to piss me off now? 😖uspicious:

Originally posted by Syndicate
Feats to back what up? That he was born in the "Golden Age." I'm sure the only evidence he needs is a birth certificate with a nice golden age stamp at the top. If you somehow couldn't tell I have a great disdain for people that argue characters are powerful because of the era they were shown in. Feats or gtfo.

Oh, his showings against Sidious? We're going there now are we? I don't think you want to flush your reputation away like this Emp. Unless you want to argue base Mace could accomplish what he did against Sidious. -___-

Ah accolades. Always the best gauge of someone's actual capabilities. 😖arcasm:

Battles with Dooku? You mean the spars they had when they were not yet in their primes and while Dooku was still apart of the Jedi Order which would have no relevancy on the capabilities of RotS Mace? Those battles with Dooku?

Except none of those things put him above Galen in sabers. Unless you want to argue beating Jedi Dooku is better then beating TFU Vader or that unsubstantiated accolades are better then hard feats.

First off. That was not Galen's prime. It was simply the most powerful we'll ever see him given that he expired shortly after that point. While this was not Vader's prime Vader has already had over a decades to rework his form and its noted in the novel itself that Vader has hybridalized his form. While I'm aware Vader improved he would not be hindered in any way by his new circumstances as he'd already been living with them for over a decade.

Vader definitely improved between TFUI and TFUII and he also planned for if one of the clones he was creating was to ever turn against him evidenced by his defensive stance in the second novel and the improvements to his armor. This means he specifically prepared for the fight. Also I don't believe there's anything suggesting Starkiller is more powerful.

An unsubstantiated statement that's debatable given his performance against Grievous, Grievous's performance against Dooku and Dooku's own performance against Anakin. Granted Dooku had the advantage of training Grievous and being intimately familiar with his fighting style and Anakin had a form and physical advantage over Dooku but obviously that statement either only BARELY places him above the rest of the Jedi or is simply false. Actually I believe there's a quote from the RotS novelization that states Anakin to be the fastest, strongest and most powerful Jedi of his generation. Oh here it is.

"The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest." - Revenge of the Sith.

So much for Mace being second to Yoda.

Regardless even if your own statement did supersede mine or we're now suddenly disregarding statements given the various performances of Jedi in that era throughout the mythos there's nothing putting Mace out of the range of the higher tiered Jedi in that era. Granted the PT era is full of powerful Jedi.

Also I'd like that quote as I'd like to see if it specifies what he's second in and when it was written.. Otherwise how am I supposed to know if he's the second most powerful, second most skilled, or second highest ranked? 😛

And what are basing that assumption off of? Mace's supposed superiority which is questionable at best.

Aggressive and smart offense? You mean like the one he used to break through Grievous's defense? Oh wait... The only opponents Mace has ever beaten purely with his lightsaber unamped has been a pre prime Ventress who he needed all his skills to defeat.

Nah, that's only one way Galen can win. The other way is him simply dominating Mace outright with TK.

What feats of endurance does Mace have to suggest this to you?

Why? Them not knowing eachother at all makes this even more likely to devolve to such a match. The fight would last longer because like Vader and Galen in their own fight they would need to test the capabilities of their opponent.

In the Force he's done plenty. I also question Mace's ability to defeat TFU Vader as convincingly as Galen or at all and finnally I question his ability to face entire armies before facing opponents/obstacles that would have given him a challenge in normal circumstances in an environment that favors his opponent given his fight against Kar Vastor where such circumstances were present and he lost badly.

Because Vader is physically superior, more powerful and arguably more skilled by that point.

You mean the droid armies. A good showing of force enhanced strength but not one Galen can't replicate or handle given his fight against Vader and Vader's own strength feats. Lifting ships? When? Heavy objects like a Star Destroyer or even thousands of droids? Doubtful.

Comparable sure but I don't believe Dooku is on Galen's level either.

I think you'd fallen into the mold of underestimating him.

Yes and i gave you the feats that show why his era is the golden age era. I am just using the golden age era thing just to help back mace, and I gave feats that show why this is.

Let me make one thing clear, yes I do know he had Vaapad to an extent unknown before, yes I do believe Sidious through the fight, but it doesn't change the fact that before he sunk into Vaapad he wasn't blitzed immediately, and was able to hold his own before going into Vaapad, an admirable feat lasting that long without it, since 3 the strong masters were taken out in 10 seconds.

it seems you like to discount accolades. Marek has those too. However i don't just put accolades there an let them stand i use feats to back them up which is what I have done.

No i mean the battle they had after the battle of Geonosis and Yoda's statements about the two in Yoda Dark rendezvous, since Yoda during that time had in fact already fought Dooku in AOTC and knows Mace and has sppared with him several times, he can comfortably say that those two would be equals.

Answered above.

I don't think you can say thats not his prime when you say next thats the most powerful we have seen him in.Also you have to consider, both Vader and Galen have had time to to understand each others style.

Yet statements made by Guillard and Insider 55 and statements made by Goerge Lucas say Windu is second most powerful and skilled Jedi after Yoda which take precedence over the books. Also Anakin is the most powerful in terms of Raw Power, not actual power.

I will get you those quotes after this post.

Oh I'm sorry weren't there specifics in his battle with Grevious? How both were hindered. Also doesn't Grevious have four sabers, and was trained by Doku, and has a very shacky record from being bale to do this to mace, and then in TCW being taken down by Fisto, and being made a fool of several times? His best showing maybe his battle against Maul in SOD since it is the most consistent you would expect from previous.

Him dominating Mace outright with TK, won't happen. His power is great but not that great.

Suggest what? I don't even think it will become a slugging match so yea.

When has Mace ever done that, felt his opponent up. He is most likely going to immdiannty go all out, like the warrior he his. He did have instruction by the ataru master yoda and his form is Vaapad which is a powerful aggressive form.

You can question all you wish, but at the end of the day Mace has faced off against entire armies all by himself and came out alive.

I never even called into question whether Galen could replicate that it just goes to show mace has replicated a strong feat of taking on entire armies by himself like marek has.

If i underestimated him, Galen would be crushed by Mace in sabers and be even with Mace in the force. I have been only fair here. Your the one saying Marek would stomp Mace badly.

Nick Gillard : We didn't see Mace fighting yet, but we know that he is second only to Yoda...

- Source : Star Wars Episode II: Action Featurette
Mace is the second most powerful Jedi in the order ;

He seems to be second most powerful jedi on the that council, next to Yoda.

- Source : Insider #55
Mace is one of the most powerful Jedi in the order ;

Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground.(refers to Dooku)

- Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Nick Gillard : We didn't see Mace fighting yet, but we know that he is second only to Yoda...

- Source : Star Wars Episode II: Action Featurette
Mace is the second most powerful Jedi in the order ;

He seems to be second most powerful jedi on the that council, next to Yoda.

- Source : Insider #55
Mace is one of the most powerful Jedi in the order ;

Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground.(refers to Dooku)

- Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

Well I'd ask you then if any of the first 3 sources have any more authority then the RotS novelization and for the last that only applies at the time of Dark Rendezvous as is clearly understood due to Anakin's own victory over Dooku.

Now where's the rest of my response?

Originally posted by Syndicate
Well I'd ask you then if any of the first 3 sources have any more authority then the RotS novelization and for the last that only applies at the time of Dark Rendezvous as is clearly understood due to Anakin's own victory over Dooku.

I would say so, since Nick Guillard basically took order from Lucas, he represented Lucas on that front. These quotes go with it cause the head line basically says as of the clone wars, and Dark Rendezvous happened during the clone wars. Anakin had a sort of Super Saiyan moment, but still that is still ok to say, cause on a consistent basis yes Mace would be his equal.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Now where's the rest of my response?

What's the rest? I said I would shoe the quote of saying Mace is the most powerful and skilled after Yoda.

"The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest." - Revenge of the Sith.

So basically your taking that quote as literal as possible
Okay
So ROTS anakin is the strongest Jedi ever
Stronger than Loft Luke or any iteration of Luke
Then he would've been able to take out ROTS Sidious straight away, he wouldn't need to bow down to him
No
Mace is second to Yoda

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I would say so, since Nick Guillard basically took order from Lucas, he represented Lucas on that front. These quotes go with it cause the head line basically says as of the clone wars, and Dark Rendezvous happened during the clone wars. Anakin had a sort of Super Saiyan moment, but still that is still ok to say, cause on a consistent basis yes Mace would be his equal.

But it's based off your opinion then. 😛

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
What's the rest? I said I would shoe the quote of saying Mace is the most powerful and skilled after Yoda.

Read it.

Originally posted by hutchy1345
"The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest." - Revenge of the Sith.

So basically your taking that quote as literal as possible
Okay
So ROTS anakin is the strongest Jedi ever
Stronger than Loft Luke or any iteration of Luke
Then he would've been able to take out ROTS Sidious straight away, he wouldn't need to bow down to him
No
Mace is second to Yoda

Personally, no. I'm showing Emp the silliness of relying on unsubstantiated quotes.

Also even if Anakin had been more powerful then Sidious it doesn't mean he was more knowledgeable which is the entire point of why he needed him. To save Padme.

Aside from that it says most powerful/strongest/fastest Jedi. Not force user.

Depending on the source you trust more or if you're like me and take feats over unsubstantiated statements.

Ah right sorry then haha

Originally posted by Syndicate
But it's based off your opinion then. 😛

Based off the level of canon. Movies take priority over everything. So Nick guild would take precedence over anything involving the novels, at least in regard to skill with the saber.